The Doctor In The TARDIS

The only thing I can think is that perhaps the switch was made during the three months that they were on the run in the opener, but my mate seems to think it might have been as far back as TBB. When do you think the Amy's were swapped?

On confidential they implied that she was gone for the entirety of S6, though I don't think it goes as far back as TBB. I think its more likely somwhere between ACC and TIA

I havent watched it yet so I missed that. I would assume that we will at least see in that case some sort of flashback or something.

Now I think about it, could it have been in TIA when Amy is strapped to the chair? It sort of looked like a more vertical version of what they used in this story.

Yes I agree there in TIA when she was taken and she just woke up and yet we could still hear her through the little recording device thing, for me that transition just didn't fit very logical

I think that the most likely time for the swap would have been when the Silents had her in that chair in DOTM. As Saber says, it was similar to the contraptions that were being used in this story

The first time she saw the eyepatch-woman was in the children's home in Day Of The Moon, so it must have happened before then (since apparently all those glimpses were due to the real Amy's reality seeping into the consciousness of the ganger Amy). I think (although the lateness of the hour and the effects of the home-brewed cider may cause me to be wrong) that that was before the Silents had her strapped into the chair, so it must have happened before that.
There are gaps in her life that we know we didn't see between A Christmas Carol and The Impossible Astronaut and between The Impossible Astronaut and Day Of The Moon, so it could be between either of those.The latter 'feels' more likely because I get the impression that the former was a time of cheery domesticity with the Doctor leaving them alone to enjoy their honeymoon and early married life, whereas the latter was... well...we don't really know, other than that it involved the Doctor and the Silents. Just seems more likely somehow that it happened then, but I could well be entirely wrong.

Incidentally, am I the only one who thinks that the fact she's been wearing the same shirt all the way through the series so far is going to be in some way relevant to this? Don't know how, since we know the ganger Doctor was quite capable of changing his shoes, but I'd be surprised if it didn't mean something. (unless Steven Moffat has started channelling the spirit of John Nathan Turner and has decided that all his regular characters should always wear the same clothes)

Wow, that post ended up being far longer than I intended. Wonder if anyone'll actually get to the end of it!

I did, has Amy worn that shirt in every ep? I don't tend to notice clothes much

I assumed that the real Amy had been swapped for the Flesh Amy during the three months she was roaming America learning about the Silence - separated from the Doctor, Rory, and River.

I mentioned the clothing thing in a thread for last weeks episode. She has been wearing the clothes since the very beginning. I thought at first she was just a skanky b!tch, but now I am thinking that it might be something to do with it all being part of the flesh, which would indicate that she was definately cloned after leaving her home in the opener, but as you said, the Doctor was able to change shoes without a problem. This though could be explained away by the 'storm changing things' though I guess, so perhaps after the flesh became more intelligent it allowed for certain changes?

I think they copied her in the Whitehouse toilets :P

What? I get bored of the same thing... I'd say before the whitehouse... but I don't know how easy that would be, I think it would be quite easy to do during lovey dovey time, I mean, the fixed location would help any confusion, as well as only being with Rory... Would also explain why she may have put on a few pounds... Though I would say that is cause she isn't running around enough at home  >:D

what was my point? Oh, the flesh is a direct copy right? and she thought she was pregnant in TDOM... Which means that if she had been copied after being impregnated, surely the flesh would be pregnant too?

She did wear the Pirates clothes?

I'm fairly sure she's been wearing the same red-checked shirt all series.


Also, it's just occurred to me that she told the Doctor she was pregnant in The Impossible Astronaut then said that she wasn't after all in Day Of The Moon. Again that suggests to me that it was between those episodes.

And the posh clothes...

But there is no guarantee that the flesh could become pregnant though.

She did, as 2C2 says above, wear 'posh' clothes in the second ep (which she was actually wearing when she first saw eye patch lady) so perhaps that theory is out of the quesion after all.

The time that would make most sense for the swap would probably be during the three month gap I would say if pressed. She was on her own for three months and anything could have happened and it would be easier to explain away that way too

Are we sure Amy doesn't just have 2 similar shirts?

Haven't been screenie-ing much  :-\ Else I would know..

I just am trying to work out the 9 months... She is about to blow! Say, this series is a month at most, The first 2 eps covers 5months - 3months running and 2 months after abandoned by Doc...
What do you think?

Sorry, so, the gap between seperation by FBI to this point would cover 9 months not say 6?

Or 4 I mean, I'm tired, I should give up for the night  :-X

I suppose that could just be explained away by the fact that they could have been travelling for any amount of time between stories, which would be the easiest way for the writing team to get around the 9 months thing.

But, I would say she could be anything up to about 3 or 4 months without really showing considerably, so its possible that she was already pregnant going into TIA, which would only need another 5 to 6, 7 at the most, months to cover, 5 of which are covered in the opening 2 parter

So it all hangs on the question (for me at least) Can flesh/clones reproduce?

 ;)

Again, that's probably something that we will only ever be able to speculate about because I don't think they will address it in the series. If I was pushed to answer, I would say no. But on the flipside I guess there isnt really a reason why they shouldnt be able to, unless they were fully cloned without reproductive systems, which I doubt they were

Agreed. We don't know how long it was between episodes 2 and 3, 3 and 4, or 4 and 5. Between the three we could quite easily make up a total of nine months - or even more if the switch happened later than between TIA and DOTM.

Novelists and Big Finish writers have created whole worlds, new companions and years of adventures between classic series stories. Is a gap of nine months at some point in the modern show really so hard to imagine?

It's also possible that the pregnancy is accelerated. She could very well only have been pregnant for a few months, but is at full term anyway. I think considering this pregnancy to be of typical length, when absolutely everything else about it has been insane so far, is a tad conceited of us.

It does say on the cover of this months DWM in the UK that she is nine months pregnant, which is where everyone probably got their ideas, so while your theory is completely right, I think she actually has gone to full term

This is my only small concern about the whole business. I am just a little wary of a timey-wimey solution. I think a little bit of timey wimey is inevitable and possibly even desirable. I just really don't want a Deus ex Machina on this one. Moff has set this up brilliantly, I really really hope the pay off is up to the build up!

I like the point that if she was 'cloned' then wouldn't the clone be pregnant as well? My only potential solution to that was if (and apologies if this is too much biology or just icky) the embryo hadn't actually implanted yet when the ganger was made.  When you count pregnancy weeks the first 2 weeks you aren't actually pregnant yet.  Conception is around week 3 and implantation happens around week 4.

So based on that, it IS possible that the ganger was made BEFORE she was technically pregnant but then the real Amy could go on to be pregnant.  You would have about a 1 week time frame but it's possible.  But that means that there had to be a solid 9 months from when she was copied.  But as said above, it's not hard to come up with that time since we don't really know how much time has passed between episodes.

May be stretching it a bit and/or trying to hard for an explanation but it works....sort of :)

ooh that's good Chrissy!  :) It works!  :) (well in my head anyway!) :P

Of course it could also be that she was impregnated after being taken in which case who knows what she is carrying ;)

Maybe the clone just couldnt get pregnant. Perhaps that was the point of having one of the workers get a cold, to show that his Ganger didnt also pick it up. We know Cleaves Ganger suffered headaches, but we don't know that she actually had the clot, same as Ganger Amy having the contraction pain but not the actual pregnancy?

Probably wrong but just a thought

That's an excellent thought.

Oh good, thanks :)

I thought people would think it was silly

I think that this is probably the best idea. Trying to explain away all the seperate plot strands would take way too long, but this is simple and easy to understand without seeming like a copout