The Doctor In The TARDIS

Travels In Time And Space => The Twin Dilemma => Topic started by: The Doc on July 16, 2011, 10:07:13 pm



Title: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: The Doc on July 16, 2011, 10:07:13 pm
(http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h387/The-Docforum/TwinDilemmaBanner.jpg)

A race of giant Gastropods has taken over the planet Jaconda. Their leader, Mestor, now intends to cause an enormous explosion in order to spread his people's eggs throughout the galaxy, and he kidnaps juvenile twin geniuses from Earth to work out the necessary mathematical equations. Space fighters led by Lieutenant Hugo Lang are dispatched to get the twins back, but they soon come under attack...

Meanwhile, a newly regenerated Doctor and Peri become involved and help Jaconda's elderly former ruler Professor Edgeworth to defeat Mestor and free the planet's bird-like indigenous people from the gastropods' reign of terror.

The Twin Dilemma was the seventh and final story of Season 21. It was the first full story to feature Colin Baker as the Sixth Doctor. It was also the last story to feature half-hour episodes until Season 23.


The next story will be revealed on Saturday 23rd July


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: The Doc on July 16, 2011, 10:18:05 pm
It's open a little earlier this week. Enjoy :)


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: poprockgeek on July 16, 2011, 10:27:57 pm
Hmm ... not heard great things about this one. Still I shall endeavour to give it a fair go  :)


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: The Doc on July 16, 2011, 10:30:32 pm
It isn't the greatest, but it is still worth watching, especially if you have never seen it. Everyone should experience it at least once. Chris is a big fan of this one so he should be able to provide the positive spin


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Peri-Peri on July 17, 2011, 11:24:36 am
Damn it!

Oh well I suppose it is time this one got a rewatch. I am sort of excited though to have an in depth look at how people feel about it rather than it just being slated in passing. I shall watch later today or tomorrow :)


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Nyki on July 17, 2011, 04:36:25 pm
I've watched the first half, and my opinion hasn't improved so far.  I'll wait till I've finished, though.


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Saber on July 17, 2011, 04:55:26 pm
Well the run of great stories had to end sooner or later :P

I actually don't mind this story too much. I'll try get a rewatch in later today :)


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Peri-Peri on July 17, 2011, 07:50:08 pm
I am not a big fan of this story, but I can sort of appreciate what it was trying to do. Taking the Doctor in a whole new direction so quickly was a huge mistake, especially for his first story at the end of a season, but I suppose credit should be given for trying. The problem was that they made him really unlikeable and then gave the audience a year to dwell on that. If they had launched a series with this story and then developed the Doctor over the course of the rest of the season it may have been better received. I really like the Sixth Doctor, but they wrote him dreadfully in the beginning.

The story itself though is awful. Terrible writing coupled with some of the worst guest stars ever mean that this is often a chore to watch for me. Peri, for me, is always great (and her boots in this story are awesome) and as I said I do think credit should be given for what they were attempting, so for those reasons, despite its many, many faults, I gave this a 2.


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: TheDoctorDonna on July 17, 2011, 08:33:17 pm
I actually don't mind it too much. I used to hate it but it grows on me whenever I watch. The story isn't so bad, its just badly executed and some of the actors, particularly the twins, are jaw droppingly awful. I'm not at all keen on the Doctor here, but as PP said I sort of get what they were trying to do. I just don't think it worked. Instead of being subtle they threw it at us and it wasn't a good decision. I'm giving it a three though


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Saber on July 18, 2011, 02:25:37 pm
I have given it a 4. I possibly got a bit ahead of myself and over scored it, but while I don't love the story, it is not as bad as many people would try to make out. For me, the biggest drawback is the Twins. They are pretty awful, and a lot of the sets look like something from the Krypton Factor with too many colours and shapes, but the bones of the story isn't a bad one and Colin Baker, whatever you think of his Doctor, puts in a good performance, as does Nicola Bryant. Not a favourite, but better than a lot of others that get far higher praise.


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Oh-Wise-One on July 18, 2011, 03:55:43 pm
I suppose this one had to come along sooner or later. I'll get a watch in asap, but I already know I won't be rating it very highly


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Roranicus on July 18, 2011, 05:10:35 pm
Ok, I will try to make this as constructive as possible :)

The overall story could have been potentially quite good, although it was nothing new or groundbreaking, I suppose they needed something easy and light to introduce the Doctor. I wasn't keen on the characterisation of the Doctor, though I thought Colin Baker played him well. Peri was good, though she had a bit of a tendancy to sound a bit whiney. The guy with the monobrow, I forget his name, he had definate companion potential, so why they didn't go with that seems odd to me. The twins were awful, but they must have only been about 14 and we have had worse child actors, though there is no reason why we ever should with the wealth of talent out there. The owl/slug looking monster wasn't very good and his voice didn't match how he looked which was sort of offputting when you watch.

There are some good elements to this, but they are far outweighed by the bad and so I give this a 2.


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Nyki on July 19, 2011, 01:35:53 am
I gave this a 2.  The plusses were the performances of Colin Baker (whatever I might think of the way the character was written), Nicola Bryant and Maurice Denham, and the idea of taking the Doctor's regeneration to an uncomfortable place.  The minusses were a confused and implausible story, which had virtually no context, some extremely dodgy science, mediocre to poor performances from most of the rest, and a real miscalculation about the Doctor's character.  I don't mind him being obnoxious, I don't even mind him strangling Peri while he doesn't know what he's doing, but I don't buy that he's a snivelling coward who tries to blame everyone else.  That was so out of character I just can't accept it.


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Peri-Peri on July 19, 2011, 09:48:27 am
Well either everyone is just being nice or this story is seriously underrated amongst fandom, because we haven't got a 1 yet *touch wood*


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Aneurin on July 19, 2011, 11:04:46 am
Sorry PP, but I had to spoil the trend. I went for a one.

I always go in with a clear head and don't let the hype of a story, good or bad, affect my judgement, but this was such a poor effort that I just couldn't rate it any higher. The story was barely there and that slug thing was dreadful. Some of the acting was amongst the worst I have seen on the show and I thought the Doctor was written really badly. I'm trying to think of positives, but nothing is coming to mind. Peri was ok I guess.


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Peri-Peri on July 19, 2011, 11:08:54 am
Well it had to happen sooner or later I guess :P


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Aneurin on July 19, 2011, 11:10:33 am
I suspect I wont be the last lol


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Peri-Peri on July 19, 2011, 11:10:59 am
Probably not


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Tardis-Console on July 19, 2011, 02:48:06 pm
I went with a two. Yes fair enough it isn't great, but it was nowhere near as bad as it had been painted to be. I'm new to DW, and even newer to the classics, but even I have seen worst stories than this.


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: poprockgeek on July 20, 2011, 04:53:23 pm
Ok I gave it a fair view, leaving all that I'd heard to one side, & you know what I actually didn't find it all that bad. Yes there are better stories, but I've seen worse. I usually judge programmes bad if I start sitting there wondering how much longer it has to go, or why I've wasted my time on it, or if I begin contemplating reaching for the off switch - none of these things happened. Yes it wasn't perfect, but it kept me entertained & I wanted to see how it ended. I'm going with a 3.



Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Exterminate on July 21, 2011, 05:18:16 pm
I went with a 1. It wasn't all bad, and most of the things it is most commonly ridiculed for didn't bother me much, but I just am not too keen on the story or the acting or the villian or the sets and most other things


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Vampyros Adric on July 22, 2011, 11:07:39 am
Hmmmmm. You are all wrong. This is a brilliant story. Actually - the problem is, you are not all wrong. This is a story with many flaws in it. But I also think that this is a lot better than people give it credit for (you can't seriously tell me that this is worse than The Kings Demon's or The Horns of Nimon or The Happiness Patrol?). Nyki (as always) provides the answer as to why this story is so badly received. No one wants to see their heroes as cowardly bullies. Yet for much of the story that is what Baker would have us believe the Doctor has regenerated in to. He light years away from the pleasant, gentle portrayal of the Doctor that Davison had provided. But by Episode Four he is back to his imperious best. When portraying anger and for the sheer radiation of power, you couldn't go far wrong with Colin Baker!

Yet the story isn't a bad one. A rogue time lord trying to save his people by assisting a giant gastropod! What more do you people want!!????!! Then look at the cast list - yes we might have baulked at the sight of Sinclair ZX Spectrum effects when Womulus and Weemus play equations but what a guest cast. Maurice Denham? Kevin McNally? Edwin Richfield? That bloke off Genesis of the Daleks? That woman who says "May my bones rot" - It was a brilliant supporting cast!

As Peri-Peri has put in another post, this story comes hot on the heels of one of (if not the actual) greatest Doctor Who adventures of either the classic or new genre. Any episode would suffer by comparison to the Caves of Androzani. Additionally, much of the perception is coloured by that fact that this was placed not, as is traditional, at the beginning of a run of stories, but right at the end of the season. So we had a long time to contemplate the awfulness of the Doctor in this episode without seeing any of his brilliance that we would witness in Attack of the Cybermen or Vengeance on Varos.

In the case of this story, love is blind. I am not ignorant to the weaknesses of the stories, I just don't care about them. This is a story of change, of the shock that companions and the audience alike must feel when their beloved hero regenerates. It was poorly funded (the budget clearly having been spent in Androzani), the script was lumpy for lots of the show and the decision to have the Doctor as a cowardly bully for so long throughout the story (and at the end of the season) was badly misjudged. So yes, they got some things wrong (i.e. most of the science) but they also had some moments of brilliance (the escape from the self destructing base, the banter between Lang, the Doctor and Peri, the concept of mathematical twins, the fact that for all of the summer of 1984 I could phone up my best friend and go "Eddddgewoooorth" a la Mestor!).

I gave it 5 - and not to be different but just because I am so very fond of this deeply unloved and misunderstood story.


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Oh-Wise-One on July 22, 2011, 09:35:31 pm
1 from me, but had the option for 0 been there, I think I would have taken it. There is so little in this story worth liking and it is one of the few stories I find an absolute chore to watch.


Title: Re: Poll: Rate & Review The Twin Dilemma
Post by: Roranicus on July 23, 2011, 09:55:19 pm
Hmmmmm. You are all wrong. This is a brilliant story.

I have been waiting for you to come in and spread your love for the story. Someone needs to champion this one ;D