The Doctor In The TARDIS

Fanatical For Who => The Top Ten Of Everything => Topic started by: The Doc on January 05, 2013, 01:46:17 pm



Title: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: The Doc on January 05, 2013, 01:46:17 pm
When Saber came up with the idea for this section of the forum I was tasked with putting out my top 50 stories of Doctor Who. It's not quite a top ten, but 50 at 50 has a nice ring to it and so it's being added to this section.

As administator on the site I always try to stay as impartial as possible, never really listing my favourites or dislikes too often, so this list might seem quite interesting to some.

Now, when it comes to Doctor Who I have never pretended to be cool. In fact, I tend to find myself liking a lot of things that are deemed unpopular amongst fandom and not being overly impressed with things that are deemed to be the best. I think that is going to reflect in this list and I don't think it will be a typical 'best of' read where the same handful of stories are hovering around the top spot.

Choosing the top 50 was hard. I narrowed it down to my absolute favourite 81 but trying to lose 31 and then deciding on some sort of order was even more difficult. I think I changed the list about seven times before I decided on the rankings and even now I am not completely satisfied with it. The top 15 or so is more or less exact. The rest are the ones I was changing a lot. I've decided on an order now though so there is no changing now.

I will be posting an update every few days with the number 1 being announced at the anniversary. Please feel free to comment on (and berate) my choices as they are added to the list. If you would like to make your own, then please go ahead and do so within this section.

50. The Voyage of the Damned (http://www.thedoctorinthetardis.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,3777.0/msg,93076.html)
49. The Keys Of Marinus (http://www.thedoctorinthetardis.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,3777.0/msg,93390.html)
48. The Curse Of Peladon (http://www.thedoctorinthetardis.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,3777.0/msg,94025.html)
47. The Mark of the Rani (http://www.thedoctorinthetardis.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,3777.0/msg,95031.html)
46. The Gunfighters (http://www.thedoctorinthetardis.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,3777.0/msg,99119.html)


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: The Doc on January 05, 2013, 02:26:16 pm
50

Voyage of the Damned

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XokJGRfbgj8/TvSmxlCCs1I/AAAAAAAAAyA/kCyps2Q5AMw/s1600/David-Tennant-Kylie-Minogue-Voyage-of-the-Damned-DOCTOR-WHO-Christmas-Special.jpg)

The Tenth Doctor
25th December 2007

I expected Voyage of the Damned to get a higher placing on my list. I love it. Quite a lot actually. That's part of the reason why making this list is so difficult. If I love the one in 50th position so much, can you imagine how hard it was trying to put the other 49 into order? I want to start by saying there was nothing I particularly disliked about this episode, I just liked the others a bit more.

VOTD, I remember, got a mixed reaction upon airing. Reaction these days doesn't seem to be any less mixed either, come to that. I'm not blind to it's flaws but everyone loves a trier and nobody can doubt the ambition behind this story. It had a bit of everything in it and was one of the first times the show went all out to make a mini-movie, which is something we are more used to seeing today under Moffat's reign.

For the entirety of it's run the show has been known to go in for a bit of stunt casting and I think Kylie Minogue is probably one of the biggest stars that the show has bagged. This, no doubt, probably played a big role in the episodes record winning viewing figures. It should have been a distraction. Pretty much everything about her playing Astid shouldn't have worked, but rather than the episode ending up being The Kylie Show, she was just a great addition to what was already a great cast and didn't steal the limelight away from story or the others. In fact, I'd say it turned out rather well.

The villains of the piece, Max Capricorn and the Host, were effective enough, though I think perhaps both would have worked better without the other. The Host seemed less scary when we realised they were being controlled and Max Capricorn seemed less convincing the more he had to rely upon them (though since the whole structure of the episode was based on his handicap there was little way around this).

The story itself brought nothing new to the table that we haven't seen done in the show before and arguably done better, but that didn't really matter when the whole thing was very obviously meant to be driven by the characters that we were given and ultimately had taken away from us, and in that respect the episode was a success. Russell T Davies didn't give us a script to make us think. He didn't give us the life changing Who of our times and he didn't really even come up with anything new, but what he did do was give us 72 minutes of pure entertainment, perfect for Christmas Day and most importantly for me, one that I always enjoy upon rewatch.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Aneurin on January 05, 2013, 04:00:10 pm
It's a great story but I am not sure it would have made my top 50. Are you covering both eras? If I did one for NuWho it would be on there, I'm certain, but I am not sure with the classics included it would have made the cut.

This will be interesting though because as you say, you never reveal too much about the ones you like. I have my shocked face ready for your reveal that The Twin Dilemma is number 1 :o

:P


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: The Doc on January 05, 2013, 04:06:03 pm
Yes it will cover both eras of the show :)

I think a lot of my choices will be unexpected. Whether The Twin Dilemma takes the top spot though you will have to wait and see :P


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Peri-Peri on January 05, 2013, 05:54:04 pm
This has definitely been one of the top Christmas specials, however when broken down and compared to all of the other stories I am not certain it is one that I would have picked for a top 50 of over 200 stories. I see it's appeal though, for sure.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Tardis-Console on January 05, 2013, 08:29:41 pm
I think this is my favourite christmas special and one of my favourite episodes of Tennants run. I'd have definitely included it.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: The Doc on January 06, 2013, 12:23:28 pm
It's not one that I would expect to see in my peoples best episodes lists, but there is just something about it that I really love. When I was trying to work out my top 50 there were a few times I thought I would get rid of it, but when I held it against some of the others I realised I enjoyed it more so it stayed.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Exterminate on January 06, 2013, 02:07:47 pm
I think by the time I could come up with my all time favourite 50 the anniversary would be long past. I'm not sure if VotD is one that I would have included in my list, but it would be nowhere near the bottom of the list of all time stories either.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Mr Chinn on January 06, 2013, 11:49:46 pm
I'm not sure that I would have the willpower to narrow all my favourite stories down to a small group, especially when there are so many. As has been said, in a top 50 of NuWho I think this would rank at a decent place, but I am not certain I would have had room for it taking the classics into account as well.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: The Doc on January 07, 2013, 03:20:17 pm
49

The Keys Of Marinus

(http://pics.livejournal.com/whatinthewho/pic/0000d88x)

The First Doctor
11th April - 16th May 1964

The Keys of Marinus was never one that I'd have added to a list like this had I been tasked with doing it a couple of years ago. I remember the first time I watched it sitting there and waiting for it to be done. I was never much of a fan of it. Despite that though, whenever I was doing a First Doctor rewatch I would never skip it and the more I watched it the more I grew to love it. It just took a while for me to see how good it actually was.

Penned by Terry Nation, probably before he realised how much money the Daleks were about to make him, this story isn't without it's fair share of faults. Some of the pacing is a bit off and some of the characters come off as a bit two dimensional, but the overall plot is a strong one and Keys manages to give us something that is rarely done in Doctor Who. It gives us a planet. A whole planet. We aren't stuck in a tiny location where nothing happens beyond what we are seeing on the screen, but instead are treated to some wonderfully realised locations, really bringing a sense of size to this story and something that is obviously lacking in so many other stories, even in the new era. On top of that we are given real glimpses of just how capable these time travellers are and there are a great many scenes where the companions take the lead and outshine the Doctor. It's great to see, especially given how often they are overlooked and given little to do in other stories.

When it comes to the Keys of Marinus my only advice is to stick with it. At six episodes long it might seem a bit daunting, but the more you watch the more you will realise just what a little gem it is.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Twisted-Sister on January 07, 2013, 04:54:52 pm
I'm not sure about VotD, but TKoM would have been higher up my list, for sure. It's a great little story and all too often overlooked, I think.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Peri-Peri on January 09, 2013, 01:14:03 pm
I'm with the Doc in that it took me a while to appreciate just how good this story is. I think that had I been doing this list I would have put it at a higher placing. Not too close to the top, but not hovering around the bottom, either.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Scott on January 10, 2013, 12:19:28 am
Two great choices for inclusion there. Despite its mixed reviews, VotD has been one of my favourite NuWho stories and TKoM is an absolute classic.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Saber on January 10, 2013, 01:11:20 pm
Both of those stories are brilliant, but had I done the list I think I'd only have had room for the latter. It's a great start to the list though and already shows how varied it will be because those two stories are complete opposites.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: The Doc on January 11, 2013, 05:11:04 pm
48

The Curse Of Peladon

(http://images.doctorwhonews.net/image.php?path=guide%2Fepisodes%2Fpeladon.jpg&h=300)

The Third Doctor
29th January - 19th February 1972

What you may find when watching a lot of Doctor Who stories, is that the writers often used them as a way of placing their own views into a story that is very obviously based on topical issues from the time. It's evident all through the series, even now, but seemed to happen a lot more frequently during the run of Jon Pertwee. This story is no exception. Sometimes it is more subtle, other times it is glaringly obvious. It's probably safe to say that this is one of those stories which still holds some relevence to situations today.

Peladon is visited twice by the Third Doctor (as a little spoiler, I will only be listing one of those visits) and here we have the original, and in my opinion best of those two, with it's popularity probably paving the way for the idea for the less well recieved sequel, The Monster of Peladon.

The story is a good one. A group of dignataries from various planets come together to try to convince the soon to be King of Peladon to join the Galactic Federation. Seems simple enough, but what we get is 4 episodes of prejudice, intrigue and sabotage, with the Doctor not always coming out as the good guy in situations. The atmosphere of the episode is spot on, with a great mix of characters thrown in for good measure. Of particular highlight is the work of Jon Pertwee and Katy Manning who, whilst always good, put on some of their best performances within this story and the Ice Warriors, who actually turn out to be good guys in this, despite the automatic assumption by everyone, myself included, that they won't be.

In an era set mostly on earth in factories and quarries, it's a nice change to get an alien world where the invasion of Earth isn't on the agenda for a couple of weeks. Letts and Dicks really bring Peladon to life, and while it suffers from the same setbacks as most planets in the show in that everything takes place within one small environment, this is one of those cases where what we get is all that we need and it never feels constrained.

The Curse of Peladon is one of those stories that balances everything really well and there is little to complain about (unless you just plain don't like the story, of course). It is grown up enough for the adults to recieve the message that it is trying to convey loud and clear, subtle enough that if that message goes over your head you aren't missing out, and has enough scares, funny bits and action sequences to keep the younger viewers entertained throughout. At four episodes long the pace is steady and the time is filled well, never outstaying it's welcome and dragging on, and the performances of everyone are top notch. It's easily the best story of Season 9.



Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Exterminate on January 11, 2013, 08:49:43 pm
Perhaps an indication of just how good this story is is that the only thing that's wrong with it is it's awful sequel. It would have been on my list, for sure. Also, great review :)


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: TheDoctorDonna on January 12, 2013, 12:30:26 pm
I love all the entries on the list so far. I have no idea what my top 50 would consist of. I'd have to really sit and think, but these three stories are as good as any and there is a good chance I would include them. I think Peladon may have ended up higher on my list though.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Aneurin on January 13, 2013, 12:38:19 am
I can never remember which one of these is the one I like. I always have to check which companion is in it. This is the one I like though. It's a great choice for inclusion though not necessarily obvious. None of them have been particularly obvious so far. I'm liking how varied it is.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Peri-Peri on January 13, 2013, 03:57:49 pm
TCOP is a fantastic story and I definitely can see why they wanted to revisit it. It's just a shame the return wasn't as good.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Saber on January 15, 2013, 08:03:53 pm
I think The Curse of Peladon is a wonderful story with lots of good going for it, though I am not sure I rate it highly enough to include on a top 50 list. I still love it though.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Roranicus on January 16, 2013, 12:15:49 pm
I'm not as keen on the Peladon stories as others seem to be. I thought this was ok, but nothing particularly brilliant.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Tardis-Console on January 17, 2013, 11:17:37 am
The Keys of Marinus may not have made my list, but Curse is brilliant and I'd have placed it higher, for sure.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Kovarians-Eye-Patch on January 18, 2013, 12:38:31 pm
I actually like both Peladon stories. The later one isn't brilliant but it's not awful either.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: The Cyber Mistress on January 19, 2013, 04:32:51 pm
I think the Curse of Peladon is great. Its a fun story with some really interesting characters. How you're managing to choose just 50 and then order them is beyond me. I'd never be able to. I love too many.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: The Doc on January 22, 2013, 11:41:46 am
47

The Mark of the Rani

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/medialibrary/images/misc/timelords/time_lord_rani.jpg)

The Sixth Doctor
2nd February - 9th February 1985

The Mark of the Rani has always been a story that I have considered to be overlooked. Fans are quick to criticise it but I think there is a lot in there that it has going for it. It was the first story in nearly 20 years that featured famous historical people (which is a bonus for me because I love the historicals), it introduced the world to The Rani, another renegade Timelord in the vein of the Master, and gives both the Doctor and Peri lots to do throughout, letting them take on their roles with gusto and put in excellent performances despite some perhaps dodgy dialogue.

As with many stories like this, I think that some of the criticism snowballs and if you say something is bad for long enough eventually people will start to believe it, but this is one of those stories that you have to watch with fresh eyes and an open mind to fully appreciate just how good it is. That doesn't mean it isn't without fault. As I said previously, some of the dialogue is very clunky. Pip and Jane Baker have a tendency to make characters sound very awkward saying things you know no ordinary character would say, as though they have just swallowed down the Oxford English Dictionary, despite being uneducated miners and such. It's even more annoying when you hear the writers on the extras and realise that even they don't talk like it. I've no doubt that once they write a script they then sit there with a thesaurus replacing words. Another thing that I know irks a lot of people is that the Master is back with absolutely no explanation as to how or why he survived his last meeting with the Doctor. Having previously been burned to a crisp, he is now back to his normal self with nothing to tie the stories together.

The Rani is a brilliant character and brilliantly played, you can see it coming through, but there are often times when it seems as though they have given the Masters lines to her and you can't tell them apart. However, she still works. For me at least. The story isn't the greatest and that is why it is not higher up on my list. However, unlike a lot of fans this is still a story that I really enjoy and happily rewatch when the mood takes me, unlike a lot of stories that only see the light of day when I am rewatching a whole season. Check it out, see for yourself, but try to go in unbiased.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Peri-Peri on January 22, 2013, 08:35:58 pm
Your enthusiasm is awesome, but this story just isn't. I think the Rani is brilliant, she was just stuck in some not so great stories. I don't hate this, but it wouldn't have made my list.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Mr Chinn on January 23, 2013, 02:23:45 pm
I love this story. I know I am in the few but I think it's great and a great entry to the list.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Saber on January 24, 2013, 12:16:18 pm
Pip and Jane Baker are terrible writers. Not bad for ideas, just awful with the execution and providers of some of the clunkiest dialogue the show has seen. The idea of the Rani is a good one. There's a lot that could be done with her. Instead they wrote a female Master. Despite it all though, I do love this serial.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Tardis-Console on January 25, 2013, 02:02:51 pm
I love it. I love both Rani stories. The writers on the commentaries are really annoying but I think the Rani is brilliant and I want her to come back.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Sparky on January 28, 2013, 02:59:01 am
This story could have been better, but I love it anyway. I agree totally with what you've said about the writers.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Exterminate on January 29, 2013, 12:32:58 pm
I love it. We're a funny bunch on this forum. We always seem to be in support of the things that fandom in general isn't keen on.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Aneurin on January 30, 2013, 01:27:20 pm
Love the Rani but can take or leave the story, tbh.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: The Cyber Mistress on January 31, 2013, 03:59:29 pm
Not one of my favourites, but as others have said, the Rani is great.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Roranicus on February 01, 2013, 01:53:14 pm
I saw this for the first time recently and I loved it. I thought it was brilliant fun. Not the best script ever written but if you don't take it too seriously it's a good watch.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Vampyros Adric on February 03, 2013, 11:07:25 am
I'm not really keen on this one. I don't like the idea of the Rani, I think the Master is reduced to a pantomime turn. Pip & Jane Baker are ok as writers (I liked their work on Trial of a Time Lord) but this just doesn't get the juices flowing.

I hate being negative so I will finish with a positive. I loved the Rani's Tardis :)


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Mr Chinn on February 05, 2013, 11:52:06 pm
I'm not really keen on this one. I don't like the idea of the Rani

How can you not like the Rani but be a fan of Adric? This must be some form of mind manipulation, surely ;D


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Tardis-Console on August 07, 2013, 03:15:01 pm
I loved the Rani's Tardis :)

Oooh, me too!


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: The Doc on August 15, 2013, 01:01:47 am
46

The Gunfighters

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6DUGiLoFvxs/UXKr1iCkstI/AAAAAAAAAYk/K6bMtBS9U_8/s400/gunfighters.jpg)

The First Doctor
30th April - 21st May 1966

To some people it may seem as though my 'best' list is getting worse, and I imagine there aren't many people who would have expected to see the inclusion of The Gunfighters on the list, but I am going to fight it's corner nonetheless.

There are a great many people in fandom who like things to stay the same. They don't like when things change and they don't like when the formula is played with, and that is something that this story is guilty of. It tries something different. In fact, the same can be said of much of the third season, which overall was a lot less well recieved. Much of this is blamed on Jackie Lane/Dodo, but more of that later.

Back in the day, many stories which are held in high regard today, such as the Romans, recieved a very lukewarm reception due to the attempt at humour within the story. Undeterred, the show was at it again with The Gunfighters, and while it may not have gone down well at the time, I think it is something that the show should be commended for. Unlike many stories that try and fail to raise a smile, this is a story that has some genuinly funny moments and doesn't take itself too seriously. There is a sense that the cast know they aren't appearing in the best story ever written and so decide to just have fun with it, and it really shows in the characters. The plot, sometimes a little thin, is mostly very good and it keeps you entertained for the run. The actors play their parts well, even though some are perhaps a little on the 2D side and the sets are brilliant. On a show like DW where the budget was bare minimum, you'd be surprised by just how well this stands up in terms of the look and feel, and the story really wasn't constrained by the studio space.

But there are problems with it too, I admit. As I said before, some of the characters can come off a bit two dimensional and the writers have absolutely nailed every cliché you can imagine when writing some of them. The biggest annoyance for me though, is The Ballad of the Last Chance Saloon. Again, they were trying something new, and that should be applauded, but the song is dreadful. It bookends each episode and creeps up on you in the middle of them too and it just sounds bad. The words are bad, the music is bad, and Lynda Barron, who can act the socks of most people, can't say the same of her singing. If it weren't for the song, this would have probably been higher up my list, but it's such a huge part of the overall story that it's unavoidable and get's irritating by the second episode. Other than that though, a story I like a whole lot.

As an aside, there is a period of about 6 months in 1966 when everything that was wrong with the show suddenly became the fault of Jackie Lane/Dodo. The stories were bad, the sets were rubbish, the episode was delayed by the news, etc. It's an easy scapegoat to use, and I have heard her be blamed for a lot, including the fact that many don't like this story, but as someone who has watched it a good few times over, I have to say that I think she puts in a good performance here (and to be honest I think she does most of the time, aside from some accent issues), so as well as defending The Gunfighters, while I am on my soapbox I will defend Dodo too. Ignore the rumours and watch it. You'll see both she and the story are actually pretty good.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Mr Chinn on August 16, 2013, 10:51:47 am
Didn't expect to see The Gunfighters on the list, I'll be honest, though I agree that it's nowhere near as bad as people make out.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Peri-Peri on August 19, 2013, 12:37:38 pm
I quite like the Gunfighters, but there wouldn't have been any room for it on my list I don't think. It's enjoyable enough if you don't plan on taking any of it seriously, but there's just too many things wrong with it to make it onto a top 50 list, in my opinion.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Tardis-Console on August 20, 2013, 10:57:44 am
Interesting choice, Doc. I enjoyed this, but I was warned a lot before I watched how bad it was. I think the negatives in the post are right. The song is really annoying and overdone and some of the acting is a bit hammy, but overall I quite liked it.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Aneurin on August 22, 2013, 09:43:58 am
I'm not keen on it, tbh. It's not awful, but I think it drags on a bit and the song is really bad. I don't think I would have included it.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Mr Chinn on August 25, 2013, 11:51:37 am
The gunfughters is so underrated its unreal. I'm not blind to the problems it has but I think it is so much fun. I'm glad to see it included here.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Exterminate on August 28, 2013, 09:26:31 am
This wouldn't have made it on to my top 50 list, but I do enjoy it a lot all the same. I just think that others are better.

I agree, though, that this one is sort of guilty of badness through reputation alone. I've heard all sorts about it but when I actually sat down to watch it myself I enjoyed it a lot and I know others have said the same.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Sparky on September 02, 2013, 12:13:05 pm
Terrible song, so-so plot. It's not awful but it wouldn't have made my list. It's just not strong enough.


Title: Re: The Top 50 At 50
Post by: Roranicus on September 09, 2013, 11:17:13 am
Odd choice there Doc. It's not a terrible story, but I don't think it's worthy of a place in the top 50 ever.