Is he really gone?

[Aneurin]

Do you think that once all the time wimey is out of the way, the Doctor will really be dead at the end of it? Or do you think they will write themselves out of it so that he doesnt die after all?

[Exterminate]

Na, no way! That was an actual Doctor death. Not a regen. They wouldnt kill the Doctor off. Would they?

[Oh-Wise-One]

Well Moff just said on Confidential 'He really does die and that really is him', but that's not to say it won't be undone/rewritten. Though Moff understandably is trying to play it like thats it from the Doctor

[missadric2]

I hope its not the end of him, for actors wise matt isn't really gonna stick around for years and years to come he's going to want to move onto other things so they can either write it to something else or let it end with Matt

[Vampyros Adric]

I wonder if we are not about to have a canon changing moment. I wonder if we are not about to see a resolution of the Doctor and his 12 regeneration conundrum. Either a reset switch or something along those lines. I always thought that was a massive plot potential and perhaps they are using the entire season arc to do this? There is lots of talk about 'time can be re-written' but also of a 'massive, game changing cliff hanger'. I wonder if this is setting something like that up

*Warning - this post is utter speculation and might be wrong in every material way*

[poprockgeek]

Might be speculation but, you know what, it makes a lot of sense to me!

[The Doc]

I don't for a second think this is the end for the Doctor. Chris' theory strikes me as the most likely so far but I guess we won't know until we know. He has to come back somehow and I think it will have something to do with a new cycle, possibly given to him by the Time Lords. They have to be coming back

[Nyki]

Well, there's the hint in the old legend of the Other that the Doctor's lived before his first life and come back, so maybe he could do that again.

[Roranicus]

What is the legend of the other?

[thefifthdoctor]

I actually have a feeling, knowing how Moff likes to screw with folk, that the death thing will be dealt with in a really easy fashion.

But then again, knowing that the Moff knows that we know that he likes to screw with folk.....my head hurts. 

[hannahcole93]

I really doubt they'll actually 'kill' in the Doctor... Agreed it has to relate to this whole 'Time can be re-written' thing, so that he doesn't actually die, but he does...

Argh I don't know... Trying to think into the way the Moff's mind works gives me brainache!

[Aneurin]

The way I see it is that he does 'really' die, but in the same way that the world ended in TBB. It happened, and it was real, but then it was all tip ex'd over and rewritten

[TheDoctorDonna]

The way I see it is that he does 'really' die, but in the same way that the world ended in TBB. It happened, and it was real, but then it was all tip ex'd over and rewritten

I think this is probably spot on

[Nyki]

What is the legend of the other?

The Other was hinted at during the Seventh Doctor's run and developed more in the novels.  The Other was an ancient Galifreyan who helped Rassilon and Omega establish the Time Lord society, but left because he didn't like the way it was going.  He was reincarnated (not regenerated) as the Doctor.

[Hartnell chronowire]

I wonder if we are not about to have a canon changing moment. I wonder if we are not about to see a resolution of the Doctor and his 12 regeneration conundrum. Either a reset switch or something along those lines. I always thought that was a massive plot potential and perhaps they are using the entire season arc to do this? There is lots of talk about 'time can be re-written' but also of a 'massive, game changing cliff hanger'. I wonder if this is setting something like that up

*Warning - this post is utter speculation and might be wrong in every material way*

this makes the most sense to be honest, think it will involve the return of the time lords, but i thinkbe it could  the doctor killed was a clone something to do with the rebel flesh and gangers later in the season

[hannahcole93]

I wonder if we are not about to have a canon changing moment. I wonder if we are not about to see a resolution of the Doctor and his 12 regeneration conundrum. Either a reset switch or something along those lines. I always thought that was a massive plot potential and perhaps they are using the entire season arc to do this? There is lots of talk about 'time can be re-written' but also of a 'massive, game changing cliff hanger'. I wonder if this is setting something like that up

*Warning - this post is utter speculation and might be wrong in every material way*

this makes the most sense to be honest, think it will involve the return of the time lords, but i thinkbe it could  the doctor killed was a clone something to do with the rebel flesh and gangers later in the season

That was my initial thought too that it was maybe something to do with the clone episode later on in the series, but I don't know, I'm sure the Moff will have thought of some brilliant 'timey wimey' plan again, but somehow I just don't think it was a definite killing and it's gotta have something to do with the whole "Time can be rewritten" phrase that should in theory be resolved/explained in this series.

[DAK]

I'm wondering about the other Eleven we see next week, the one with the long hair and beard.  Maybe he's the one that dies?  Where did he come from - the Pandorica maybe?  We never did find out how he got out of there originally to begin the time loop where he gives Rory the sonic.  Perhaps he was trapped in there for a very long time before someone discovered how to open it, and this is how that time loop began? 

Anyway, something else interesting I noticed, we never saw this older Doctor's TARDIS.  Was it the car?

[Peri-Peri]

I think yes! He is definately dead. But in answer to the original question, I do not think he is gone.

Moffat has a way of writing timey wimey so that it can sometimes tie the viewer up in knots, but when broken down its really simple. Looking at it on a larger scale, the Doctor dying sort of means that the Doctor can never die. It created a paradox. By dying it means it put his past self into action on a course of events that means two years down the line he will again leave a message to his past self before dying, which his past self will then follow, leading to the same point two years in his future, etc. Round and round and round and round we go.

BUT

Perhaps this has already gone round in circles 20 times already. Perhaps the future Doctor knows the ending and so is changing events. Perhaps future Doctor was never actually meant to die, but did so as a way of ensuring his younger self carried on down a different path. Perhaps the Doctor really is dead but by dying leads younger Doctor to do something which means older Doctor never dies in the first place.

This of course could create a sort of anti-clockwise paradox, as if he doesnt die, it doesnt set the Doctor on his new path, which then means he does die, which then does set the Doctor off on his new path, so then he doesnt die, which means......... Get my drift?

I'm sure, confusing as I just made it, that the Doctor dying is the reason he doesn't die. Whether Moff then feels the need to fill out the rest of the story with paradox bumpf is up to him, but I think its the only way it can really work without the story being a big huge copout.

This is sort of the reason I am starting to really hate all the timey wimey crap. Straight lines work just as well and the stories are often just as good, if not better.

We could of course just have the Doctor dead. Dead, dead, dead! Then at the beginning of Series 7, Amy gets out of bed and walks into the bathroom to find the Doctor stepping out of the shower, proving the last year had just been a.....

[chrissymarieb]

We could of course just have the Doctor dead. Dead, dead, dead! Then at the beginning of Series 7, Amy gets out of bed and walks into the bathroom to find the Doctor stepping out of the shower, proving the last year had just been a.....

WIN!!!!!!!

[Nyki]

We could of course just have the Doctor dead. Dead, dead, dead! Then at the beginning of Series 7, Amy gets out of bed and walks into the bathroom to find the Doctor stepping out of the shower, proving the last year had just been a.....

Ah, the Dallasian Exception Variation of the Blinovitch Limitation Effect