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Gallifreyan Language

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Davros
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« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2012, 04:04:25 am »

I had some sketches for basic grammar structures set up, but once I hit the conjunctions and prepositions I got stuck. Mine was based off of "clusters" of circles (because they don't like up in lines or anything) and the position of the circles in relation to each other was going to give meaning, but then I realized certain circles might "look" related to others when they weren't. Which is why prepositions and conjunctions became a nightmare.
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Today, the Kaled race is ended, consumed in a fire of war. But, from its ashes will rise a new race. The supreme creature. The ultimate conqueror of the universe. The Dalek!
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« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2012, 01:58:04 pm »

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I had some sketches for basic grammar structures set up, but once I hit the conjunctions and prepositions I got stuck. Mine was based off of "clusters" of circles (because they don't like up in lines or anything) and the position of the circles in relation to each other was going to give meaning, but then I realized certain circles might "look" related to others when they weren't. Which is why prepositions and conjunctions became a nightmare.

Is there any chance we could see these sketches?
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Davros
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« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2012, 04:02:18 am »

Sorry but I don't think I have them anymore- they got thrown out in the trash. The basic premise was to have adverbs and adjectives inside the circle of the noun they were describing. The verb-circle would intersect the subject (noun circle) of the sentence halfway through the verb-circle's width.

The verb's placement determined its tense. Of the English language's 16 tenses. The top of the circle would be considered the starting point (90 degrees) and move 22.5 degrees clockwise or counterclockwise to change tense. (there would be a chart for which angle meant which tense). All nouns intersecting the main subject-circle word to its immediate left (180 degrees) would be an indirect object, and things directly above the subject-circle (90 degrees) would be the direct object.

The problem is how to demonstrate conjunctions and prepositions and which object applies to which. To know if the 'Man throws the ball to him' or if 'Man throws him to the ball'. I also didn't want the 'clusters' to be limited to what a normal English sentence could express. I wanted more and more circles to branch outward from the main subject-circle and go on forever, so you could describe entire scenes and paragraphs worth of information in one 'cluster'. However the issue of having that many circles interferes with the concept of indirect objects being to the left (180) and direct objects being above(90).

Example: You've got a main circle. To its left is a generic indirect object. above the main circle is a direct object. Say you want to give the direct object an indirect object of its own. But now the original main circle's indirect object seems to have its own direct object (the real direct object's indirect object). It would just get too confusing and grid-like.

I'm sorry I'm expressing this all by word. It must be confusing. I suggest drawing what I'm saying.
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« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2012, 04:58:25 am »

That's actually not a bad start. Some of the basic rules, like the verbs and nouns intersecting, and the adj in the nouns.... The rest just needs to be more simplified.


The main problem keeping me form helping here is I'm not used to picture writings. I speak English, French, and Italian, but compared to a language of circles, those are are VERY similar.

We should ask an ancient Egyptian....
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« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2012, 05:56:09 am »

Haha, I don't think that would help. Part of my speculative ideas was to use the tiny circles (if you look at BBC concept art there are lots of tiny circles just floating around) as a way to indicate where the "main center circle" was. Maybe certain patterns would indicate where it was. I was thinking of using straight lines to indicate prepositions/conjunctions.

My problem is that I'm trying to make the language but stick true to the BBC designs. Of course I might just use up all their design ideas just making the grammar work out, then I'd have no more room to make up words...

I've got no idea about Italian. Native English speaker learning French (just a year so far) and mainly German.

More simplified? You mean the 22.5 verb thing? Well I wanted a way to indicate verb tense without having to add a bunch of subtle tiny symbol markers to indicate. I just wanted to indicate by physical location in relation to other objects. That's what's special about the language- it's meanings/grammar are all based off of their spatial relationships to others, not the actual meanings of the words (maybe that's why conjunctions and preps are a nightmare).
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« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2012, 10:04:52 pm »

Interestingly, I received my copy of the brand new Doctor Who novel, Shada, this morning from Amazon.  This is the Douglas Adams story, rewritten by Gareth Roberts.

Just before Chapter 1, is the following page:
Quote

Fig. 1.  These words are carved into the machonite plinth upon
which rests
The Worshipful and Ancient Law of Gallifrey,
one of the Great Artifacts of the Rassilon Era.  They are here
reproduced by kind permission of the Curator of the Panopticon
Archives, the Capitol, Gallifrey.  Translated from the Old High
Gallifreyan they read, roughly:  'If this book should care to roam,
box its ears and send it home.'

I realise that this is Old High Gallifreyan, and not the modern circular Gallifreyan, but in theory, the modern language is based on the old one.  I've tried to figure out this passage, but even knowing what it says, I am unable to even begin to figure out the translation process, so posting it here in case anyone has any insights...

I thought it looked vaguely like the Gnomish language used by Eoin Colfer in his Artemis Fowl books, but that translated directly to english, just substituting pictograms for letters.  This seems more complicated, but I find it hard to believe that this is just random symbols...
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« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2012, 10:45:05 pm »

I find it suspicious that it has about 24 different characters some of which resemble pig pen and math. Math makes sense, but pig pen?
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Today, the Kaled race is ended, consumed in a fire of war. But, from its ashes will rise a new race. The supreme creature. The ultimate conqueror of the universe. The Dalek!
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« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2012, 11:38:29 pm »

I find it suspicious that it has about 24 different characters some of which resemble pig pen and math. Math makes sense, but pig pen?
Never heard of Pig Pen...?
But there are certainly Greek characters in there, which are commonly used in mathematical problems.

It also seems someone has (this week) taken the idea we had here to work on the language, and run with it.  I found that a new 'Gallifreyan Dictionary Wiki' has appeared, seemingly a few days ago.  I decided to give it a boost and have added a few pages, based on what I posted at the top of this thread, but I think this might be a great place for people who want to work on the language to hang out, using the wiki's forum to throw ideas around...
Anyways, link is here.  This is not my wiki, but I'll certainly be watching it, and contributing where I can...
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« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2012, 05:32:10 am »

Hi guys! I am sure that you have probably stumbled across this already... but... a 'Circular Gallifreyan' alphabet has been created... based upon the images from the show.. ie 'Idiots Latern' etc. It can be found here if you would like to learn it... http://timeturners.wikidot.com/circular-gallifreyan
It is not canon but still really cool.
Enjoy!
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« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2012, 07:28:34 am »

Hi guys! I am sure that you have probably stumbled across this already... but... a 'Circular Gallifreyan' alphabet has been created... based upon the images from the show.. ie 'Idiots Latern' etc. It can be found here if you would like to learn it... http://timeturners.wikidot.com/circular-gallifreyan
It is not canon but still really cool.
Enjoy!

Thank you so much - I didn't know about this (and my views on canonicity are that it should never get in the way of enjoyment of the show)
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