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Are We Being Treated Like Idiots?

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« on: May 22, 2011, 01:02:42 am »

Going by other posts about the pregnancy and the eyepatch woman, it got me to wondering if perhaps we are being treated a bit like we are stupid. Those two things in particular Moffat keeps hammering home, like one week without mention and we are likely to forget all about it. As others have said, those particular plots are not being advanced in any way. We are effectively watching the same scene over and over again, but yet Moffat is sticking them in to nearly every single episode and I know from reading on the forum that people are getting tired of it. 

We have been down this road in past series with RTD and Bad Wolf, Saxon, Torchwood etc, but the difference between the two was that RTD managed to do it in such a subtle way that you would hardly even know it was there, yet Moffat seems intent on slapping us around the face with his hints as though they would otherwise go unnoticed.

We know that these will end up being big plot points later in the series, but did we really need to have these scenes included so early on in the series, and then repeatedly over the course of the next few episodes? Once each would have been enough or nothing at all until the story was actually relevent, but this really wasn't needed.

I know I sound like a grumpy sod but it's the one thing in whats been an otherwise fine series thats been really niggling at me
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2011, 08:23:35 am »

I wouldn't particularly say we're being treated like idiots, I mean I'm pretty forgetful and reminders are good for me especially as I haven't watched some of this series more than twice, so the reminder is good for me, although agreed in a way that it could perhaps be much more subtle.

But I don't think we're really being treated like idiots, cause some people do actually forget and need a reminder.
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2011, 12:55:24 pm »

I do think that the way its being hammered home is a little over the top, but for me the worst thing about it is that we are essentially rewatching the same scene over and over. I don't mind that they keep referencing it and going back to it, but if we aren't going to get something new then there really is no need
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« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2011, 12:56:57 pm »

Yeah. RTD did used to be a lot more subtle.

It'd actually be better if they DIDNT remind us (especially eye patch woman) as when it's finally explained, you can go back and think "Oh! I remember her!"
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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2011, 03:44:01 pm »

I agree with Joshua, Bad Wolf, Torchwood, Saxon: RTD was always a lot more subtle at weaving the plot arc into the stories and this made it a lot easier for casual viewers to drop in and out. As I said on another thread, I think the reason we (as in dedicated fans) are getting a bit sick is that Moff is trying to make sure no one (as in casual non-fan viewers) misses out on the pay off.

It's a bit cynical to say, but we'll watch the show anyway. The Moff won't care about moderately annoying us in exchange for keeping lots of floating viewers onside.
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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2011, 03:46:06 pm »

While admittedly RTD was far more subtle, perhaps Moff isnt doing it to remind us that something is coming later in the series, but to instead make us keep asking 'who is she?' or 'Is she pregnant?'. The thing is, by leaving those questions unanswered but constantly offering them to us each week it is forcing us to ask the questions and speculate about the fallout. What if she is pregnant, who is the father etc, or who is the woman, why is she targeting Amy. By constantly bringing these things to our attention it is forcing us to keep speculating.
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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2011, 03:51:35 pm »

I think that is actually a very good point as well TS!
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« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2011, 05:00:18 pm »

What I don't get is - look at how sneaky s5 was with the "hang on a minute" way they did scenes which were later revealed to be 11 jumping about the place in the finale - it was done subtlely and worked pitch perfect, IMO.

This year seems to be all about ramming those two things down our throats & it's doing my nut, frankly.
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2011, 12:40:35 am »

While admittedly RTD was far more subtle, perhaps Moff isnt doing it to remind us that something is coming later in the series, but to instead make us keep asking 'who is she?' or 'Is she pregnant?'. The thing is, by leaving those questions unanswered but constantly offering them to us each week it is forcing us to ask the questions and speculate about the fallout. What if she is pregnant, who is the father etc, or who is the woman, why is she targeting Amy. By constantly bringing these things to our attention it is forcing us to keep speculating.

A perfectly good suggestion, but I still wish he was doing something to develop the ideas a bit, rather than simply repeating the same thing.
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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2011, 12:45:23 am »

Wait wait wait. People are saying that Moffat is treating us like idiots? As if some of RTD's plots and scripts didn't scream "YOU'RE ALL TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND ANYTHING MORE COMPLEX!"?
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« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2011, 12:47:53 am »

Wait wait wait. People are saying that Moffat is treating us like idiots? As if some of RTD's plots and scripts didn't scream "YOU'RE ALL TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND ANYTHING MORE COMPLEX!"?

Well, I'd take of Moff episode over an RTD one any day, but on current showing I'd say RTD's a lot better on managing plot-arcs.
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« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2011, 11:27:44 am »

Wait wait wait. People are saying that Moffat is treating us like idiots? As if some of RTD's plots and scripts didn't scream "YOU'RE ALL TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND ANYTHING MORE COMPLEX!"?

I knew someone would end up making it like a war between the two. This isnt a 'who is better' argument. What RTD did in the past has no bearing on how Moffat is running the show now. The only reason he was mentioned at all was to highlight the differences between the way the overall arc foundations have been laid down in each different series. This isnt a conversation about overall 'plots and scripts' or comparing the two in any other way. If you want to discuss RTD's plots and scripts or if you think he was treating fans like idiots then this isnt the thread for it and it shouldnt be used to have a random bash at the guy when the discussion is about the way Moffat is handling the arc of series 6
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« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2011, 02:06:22 am »

I knew someone would end up making it like a war between the two. This isnt a 'who is better' argument. What RTD did in the past has no bearing on how Moffat is running the show now. The only reason he was mentioned at all was to highlight the differences between the way the overall arc foundations have been laid down in each different series. This isnt a conversation about overall 'plots and scripts' or comparing the two in any other way. If you want to discuss RTD's plots and scripts or if you think he was treating fans like idiots then this isnt the thread for it and it shouldnt be used to have a random bash at the guy when the discussion is about the way Moffat is handling the arc of series 6

Let me see if I've got this right. You're allowed to compare the two, but I'm not? And what's with the angsty fit over a simple comment? You're reading far more malice in my comment than there actually is.

The fact of the matter is that Moffat's arcs are no more "treating us like idiots" than any of Davies' ever did. The thought has only come up because of the repeated themes being more obvious than in the past - which, if you ask me, may very well have some significance in itself. Considering the nature of the season's primary antagonist, I don't think it's such a stretch to imagine that the characters are forgetting about the Eye-Patch Lady, or the pregnancy scan.
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« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2011, 11:34:26 am »

You both make good points.  Let's move on, please Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2011, 05:25:55 pm »

I think it's just more a case of in terms of story, the cracks were meant to be everywhere - hence why they popped up everywhere and everytime the doctor arrived at. Otherwise it would have been a case of someone just saying "they are everywhere" - it is better to show than tell.

For eye-patch lady the same is true. She must be looking in on Amy all the time (through an alternative universe or some other device) so it makes sense that she keeps doing it - otherwise Amy would just say "oh yeah, that one time there was a lady looking at me" and it wouldn't have much of an effect or come across as very important.
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