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Gallifrey, Time Lords & Regenerations

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« on: February 08, 2012, 03:35:36 pm »

I'm getting so lost trying to keep up with all the different rules for regeneration.

Matt is Doctor eleven, though The Brain Of Morbius hinted that he could be a later incarnation which would mean that there would have to have been more than 12 regens. It's then said in SJA, probably jokingly, that he could regenerate 507 times, but the general feeling is that the real limit is 12. I read that when the Time Lords were wiped out, the regen limit was wiped out also because they were no longer there to enforce it, but now in this story they were saying that 12 is absolute, which makes it seem like they have no choice in the matter. But didn't the Master get given a whole new cycle back in the day? So is regeneration biological? Something you are born with. Perhaps a gene that lies dormant until the Time Lords activate it? Or is it a gift bestowed upon Gallifreyans by the Time Lords? Are all Gallifreyans Time Lords? Are all Time Lords Gallifreyans for that matter? Wasn't Ace supposed to go to Time Lord School had the show continued? Would she then be able to regenerate? River was conceived in the TARDIS and can regenerate, but is she both? Or neither? She didn't go to Time Lord training as far as we know and she isn't strictly Gallifreyan either unless being conceived in the TARDIS gives her some sort of dual citizenship.

This is why I think they need to stick to canon.
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2012, 08:14:22 pm »

You've pretty much summed up what there is to know, to be honest. With the exception of the part where the regen limit died with the Time Lords. That bit is just fan speculation. More often than not these stories changed the details to suit themselves and there is a lot of fan debate about it.

The Ace thing can be discounted from canon because although you are right and it was planned, it never happened so it's not strictly 'canon'. The reasoning behind Rivers regens is ropey at best and probably worth ignoring for its silliness. If making Time Lords was that easy, why not just kick start the race by getting jiggy mid flight? Although, it does sort of help in the argument of whether or not Time Lords and Gallifreyans are one and the same. The reason she can regenerate is because she was conceived in the Time Vortex and so ended up with Time Lord DNA. An improbably story, but if Time Lords were an order and not a race, they wouldn't have their own DNA. My personal opinion though has always been that they are one and the same.

The stuff with SJA I think was meant as a joke. Perhaps not the fact that he can do it more than 12, but I think 507 was just a number plucked out of thin air and the Doctor pulling Clyde's leg, somewhat.

As for the stuff in The Brain Of Morbius, this is something that was more implied than stated, and so I, along with most others, choose to ignore it.

As we get closer to that 12th regeneration and beyond, I would expect it to get even more muddied. They obviously, as long as the show is still a success, will want to continue it and so will find a way around it, which is likely to contradict what we know already. On the other hand, the number of regens hasn't been addressed in NuWho so there is nothing to say they won't just ignore it completely and carry on.
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2012, 10:26:36 pm »

The reasoning behind Rivers regens is ropey at best and probably worth ignoring for its silliness. If making Time Lords was that easy, why not just kick start the race by getting jiggy mid flight? Although, it does sort of help in the argument of whether or not Time Lords and Gallifreyans are one and the same. The reason she can regenerate is because she was conceived in the Time Vortex and so ended up with Time Lord DNA. An improbably story, but if Time Lords were an order and not a race, they wouldn't have their own DNA. My personal opinion though has always been that they are one and the same.


It wasn't just being conceived in the vortex, though.  It's said somewhere in AGMGTW that they'd been tinkering with Melody's DNA throughout the pregnancy.

My impression is that the Time Lords are the elite Gallifreyans, not that the two are synonymous, but there's no evidence one way or the other whether they can all regenerate.  And the Master beat the limit first by stealing bodies, then by being resurrected (not regenerated) by the High Council.

And yes, I completely agree that what the Doctor told Clyde was probably a joke.
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2012, 01:40:36 am »

Didn't Moff say somewhere that the bit about altering the DNA was a hint to the fact the baby was a Ganger?
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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2012, 03:10:10 pm »

I think when it comes to regens they shouldn't even bother addressing it. Just carry on and ignore the rule. Or cover it with a one off line or something. I think some people are expecting a big old story that will explain everything but I don't care. I just want it to continue.
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2012, 08:39:41 pm »

As much as it seemed like a joke in SJA, Moff said he was happy to leave it at that so perhaps he has no plans to address it at all. It was a bit 'out there', but it was essentially addressed so maybe there will be no need to bring it up again. Perhaps the fact it was treated in such a jokey fashion has something to say about how the people in charge feel about it?

That said though, we don't know who will be in charge by that point or what their thoughts on it will be
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2012, 03:11:01 pm »

I think when it comes to regens they shouldn't even bother addressing it. Just carry on and ignore the rule. Or cover it with a one off line or something. I think some people are expecting a big old story that will explain everything but I don't care. I just want it to continue.

This is my thought on it too. I don't think it's as important as some fans make it out to be. The way some poeple go on about the limit you'd think they want the show to die with the 13th incarnation.
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2012, 03:25:04 pm »

I'm all about the canon, but the regen limit is one of those things that I think needs to be changed. I'd prefer they gave a reason for changing it though rather than just doing so.
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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2012, 10:03:45 am »

On The Brain of Morbius, didn't the Doctors shown add up to 13? Could the others shown be the *future* generations?
Said this before, but I want the 13th to regenerate into the first, like a loop. That would be kinda cool.
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