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Missing Episode Discussion

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Oh-Wise-One
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« Reply #180 on: August 30, 2013, 11:03:43 am »

Where are all the regulars like PRG or The Doc or Nyki or PP or anyone else who would normally take an interest in the speculation here? My assumption is that they'd all rather not be brought into a debate they too likely think is a load of bull. I can't speak on their behalf of course....

And yet you have!!

Maybe they haven't read it, maybe they don't care, maybe they'd rather stay out, maybe it's none of your business. Why focus on who isn't posting here when there is enough people who have posted here to take hits at and quote. Why does it matter if 50 people or just one person believes it. He wanted conversation and to share his information and he has just done that. As well as telling him that he is a liar, you are also saying how he should go about his posts!

That isn't what I did and you know it! I didn't say how he should post, I simply suggested that if that is all he wanted then there were better, probably more productive ways to go about it that would have reaped more rewards for his aim. If I told you that you should watch Terror of the Zygons would I be making a suggestion or would I be telling you that you have to do it? This is absolutely no different whatsoever!

As for speaking for others, I was simply trying to prove a point. And I think I have. You look back at posts this month before this guy showed up. People having nice, speculative chat.

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All these people were discussing away their thoughts. This guy then shows up looking to have 'excited chats' about the same speculation, only he calls it a fact, and suddenly the only people posting here is him, you and Exterminate, both of you seemingly taken in immediately. Saber came in, showed some opposition and then also appeared to change his tune. Everyone else has stayed away, despite most of them still visiting and posting elsewhere. Doesn't that say something to you?
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« Reply #181 on: August 30, 2013, 11:08:32 am »

All it says is that people have a right to post wherever they want, about whatever they want. I don't regularly post in some sections of this forum, but you could hardly say that my absense is down to someone else posting something there. I chat where I want to chat about things that catch my interest. Everyone else is entitled to do the same without having their posting habits analysed by you!

So do you believe there is any truth to this rumour at all? Taking his claims out of it, do you believe that there could be some truth to it?

Is it possible? Of course. Is it likely? No. But what are you trying to prove? If I say yes I think there could be truth to it is still doesn't change the fact that I think The Rutan Host is piggybacking on it and not providing information from a 'source'.

Don't you think this makes it sound personal? You are willing to believe it is a possibility, just not from him!
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« Reply #182 on: August 30, 2013, 11:10:17 am »

And let's not forget, this isn't just about him saying 'X' is back. His discussions have included recovery efforts, junkings, the sale of the show abroad etc. Even if you can't believe his claims, he is bringing other interesting discussion to the forum. Stuff that is fact and is related to the show. What's wrong in that?
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« Reply #183 on: August 30, 2013, 11:17:34 am »

All it says is that people have a right to post wherever they want, about whatever they want. I don't regularly post in some sections of this forum, but you could hardly say that my absense is down to someone else posting something there. I chat where I want to chat about things that catch my interest. Everyone else is entitled to do the same without having their posting habits analysed by you!

So do you believe there is any truth to this rumour at all? Taking his claims out of it, do you believe that there could be some truth to it?

Is it possible? Of course. Is it likely? No. But what are you trying to prove? If I say yes I think there could be truth to it is still doesn't change the fact that I think The Rutan Host is piggybacking on it and not providing information from a 'source'.

Don't you think this makes it sound personal? You are willing to believe it is a possibility, just not from him!

That's not fair. You can't make out like I have a personal vendetta against this guy when I would react the same to anyone making the claims. Yes, I am willing to believe it is a possibility and no I am not willing to believe that based on this guys claims. I will believe it when the BBC say that they are returned or when someone shows up at my door and plays me a copy of something missing. Not before. Don't dare try and make this like I have some personal issue with the guy.
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« Reply #184 on: August 30, 2013, 11:18:47 am »

And let's not forget, this isn't just about him saying 'X' is back. His discussions have included recovery efforts, junkings, the sale of the show abroad etc. Even if you can't believe his claims, he is bringing other interesting discussion to the forum. Stuff that is fact and is related to the show. What's wrong in that?

Nothing. That's why I haven't suggested he stop or is lying about it. In fact I found some of it interesting myself. Doesn't mean I believe a word of his story about a return though, and as you well know, that is where my issue lies
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« Reply #185 on: August 30, 2013, 11:20:42 am »

All it says is that people have a right to post wherever they want, about whatever they want. I don't regularly post in some sections of this forum, but you could hardly say that my absense is down to someone else posting something there. I chat where I want to chat about things that catch my interest. Everyone else is entitled to do the same without having their posting habits analysed by you!

So do you believe there is any truth to this rumour at all? Taking his claims out of it, do you believe that there could be some truth to it?

Is it possible? Of course. Is it likely? No. But what are you trying to prove? If I say yes I think there could be truth to it is still doesn't change the fact that I think The Rutan Host is piggybacking on it and not providing information from a 'source'.

Don't you think this makes it sound personal? You are willing to believe it is a possibility, just not from him!

That's not fair. You can't make out like I have a personal vendetta against this guy when I would react the same to anyone making the claims. Yes, I am willing to believe it is a possibility and no I am not willing to believe that based on this guys claims. I will believe it when the BBC say that they are returned or when someone shows up at my door and plays me a copy of something missing. Not before. Don't dare try and make this like I have some personal issue with the guy.

That's not what I did. You made a comment and I responded with a statement that it was beginning to sound personal. You've stated where you stand on that now. I apologise if it seemed like an accusation. It wasn't.
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« Reply #186 on: August 30, 2013, 11:20:50 am »

Right, pack it in the pair of you. You have opposing views and you've both stated them. Debate is fine but this is ridiculous. It's going round and round in circles and you should both know better. Stating and restating your points will get neither of you anywhere so change the subject or go to another thread. If I have to ask more than once I'll shut it down
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« Reply #187 on: August 30, 2013, 11:21:41 am »

We can't talk about it at all?
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« Reply #188 on: August 30, 2013, 11:26:43 am »

You have been. By all means if you have something new to bring to the conversation then go ahead, but if you are both going to keep standing on either side of this and arguing back and forth I'm going to shut the thread and start deleting posts. You know where Aneurin stands, Aneurin, you know where Oh Wise One stands, leave it at that. You wont change each others opinion. You've been warned twice already this morning and now I've had to step in too. By all means discuss the veracity of the claims, but if I see anyone being called a liar, stupid, blind, rude or anything else again I'm going to issue warnings.
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« Reply #189 on: August 30, 2013, 11:30:23 am »

And how exactly am I, or anyone else for that matter, supposed to stand here and say we don't believe him without saying anything about lies?
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« Reply #190 on: August 30, 2013, 11:42:44 am »

Nobody, including The Rutan Host, is asking you to believe the comments that have been made. Please, by all means state your disbelief. Say that you think this is untrue. But when you say outright that a member is a liar you are calling their character into question and it becomes a personal insult, and I won't put up with that. It's a fine line, but make your comments about the comments presented and not about the person who is making them. Is that clear enough?
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« Reply #191 on: August 30, 2013, 11:50:44 am »

Apologies. To everyone. My intention this morning isn't to argue with anyone, just to defend someone until we have proof either way. We can't prove he is telling the truth any more than we can prove he isn't and I just think people should be given the benefit of the doubt at least until we know, even of wee don't agree with what has been said
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« Reply #192 on: August 30, 2013, 11:56:20 am »

I'm sorry, but I am going to defend myself here. Have you actually read my first post on this topic? I stated my disbelief and I asked the reporter of these claims to provide some evidence or explain to me why I should take his word on the matter. I didn't call him a liar, just said that I didn't believe it. I even went to length to explain why I didn't believe it and also how anybody without proof could come here and say the exact same thing. How is that breaking the rules that you've stated above?
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« Reply #193 on: August 30, 2013, 12:13:18 pm »

Yes, and if your initial post was the problem then you would have been warned about it last night. Unfortunately, the same can't be said of your posts today and comments have become personal. Don't feel singled out, this is going to the both of you. I don't care what your personal opinions are and I don't want them posted on this forum. Discuss the topic at hand and move along, there is absolutely no need to descend into personal attacks against other members when their opinion doesn't match your own and I don't want to say it again. And that goes for everyone reading this. If you need to reacquaint yourselves with the rules they can be found at the top of the forum. Please browse them!
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« Reply #194 on: August 30, 2013, 12:56:37 pm »

I suppose I should probably offer up an apology here myself.

I spoke with a moderator here when I signed up and explained that something like this could happen based on the nature of what I was posting and previous reactions I have experienced in the past. I offered then to stop posting if the moderating team felt like my presence was a distraction to the forum and that offer still stands. Until then though I am going to continue posting as I have, stating my belief, answering questions and being respectful of the other members. I would, however, like to make a few things clear to anyone reading this.

The information that I am putting forward in regards to a find of missing episodes is not information that I have made up. It is not information I have gathered elsewhere to post here as my own, either. I have a person who, through their job, has been shown a copy of Marco Polo, will be watching the other stories also and has been informed that there are more missing episodes currently being negotiated on.

I fully understand, as one poster here has pointed out, that I have no way to back up these claims. Yes, I could be a nutjob and yes, I could be a troublemaker. Unfortunately for me I have no way of proving to you otherwise, which I realise does not help my claim. The only assurance that I have is that the person who has provided me with this information is someone who I trust completely. Surely you all know someone you could say that about. Yes, of course it is completely possible that they could be lying to me, but I just know deep down that they are not. As I have stated before though, if that ever turned out to be the case then I am the only one here who would look a fool for it and I would hold my hands up and say I am wrong, but I just know that won't be the case when the announcement finally gets made.

For clarity, I have no hidden agenda here. Anyone who reads my stuff will see that while I am convinced of the return of these stories, I have done nothing at all to try and make people believe me besides answering any questions asked of me. I haven't told anyone that they should believe me if they have stated that they don't, I haven't made any comments that people will feel silly when I am proved right and I have not tried to make anyone take my comments and spread them further. I have never suggested that anyone with opposing views about my comments should argue between them or shout the other down. I have never suggested that I should be at all thanked or revered when the claims prove true and I have never attacked anyone who has questioned the truthfulness of my posts. I am not looking for arguments or glory, both of which I have been accused, and I am certainly not Yoko Ono and looking to make this place break apart from the inside.

I also have never claimed to have had any personal interaction with missing episodes. I haven't seen them, I haven't held them, I haven't viewed them. I don't claim to be in possession of them, I have nothing to trade or sell, I have not tried to convince anyone that the information provided is my own first hand account and I haven't claimed to have any concrete knowledge about anything other than the three stories and a handful of missing episodes that I have posted about here.

I don't ask anyone to take me at my word. I have no friends on this forum who know me personally and I fully expected when I posted my initial comment about the find that people would question it, deny it and some might even become aggressive about it. I don't take offence to being doubted because if the shoe was on the other foot I would no doubt be sceptical myself. Yes, I could have kept the information to myself and been happy in the knowledge that at least I know what's coming, even if others don't, but I am a huge fan of the show and wanted to discuss some very exciting developments with other people of a like mind.

It's been pointed out that my posting here seems to have cleared out the thread of it's regular members and for that I am sorry. Since nobody has come forward to say otherwise I suspect that Oh-Wise-One was probably correct in that assumption. For those who do feel that way, if this will make any difference at all, I have no interest or intent to try and make fools of anyone and I certainly did not want to make anyone feel like they can not post in this thread anymore and I am sorry if that is the case.

For those interested or who want to question me on anything, whether they believe or not, I am happy to answer any questions and it would be nice to discuss it with everyone. As I have said, I will not try to convert anyone to thinking my way and I am more than happy for people to doubt me if they wish. I really am only looking to discuss it, not turn the thread into a war zone.
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« Reply #195 on: August 31, 2013, 10:16:33 am »

Just to defend my stance here, seeing as my name has been brought in to the mix by OWO. Nobody has chased me out of any thread around here. My absense has been because I have been absent. Nothing more too it.

In regards to these rumours, I will believe it when I see some physical evidence. Until then, there is nothing to say that a find of some size isn't possible, but I am not pinning anything on it. There was that statement made about a year back where someone said that the number of missing episodes would be 'significantly lower' by the anniversary, I just can't remember who said it. I remember we were discussing it on here somewhere though. On the flip side, I read something about a month ago where someone had issued a statement saying nothing had been found. Again, I don't remember who or where it was. Could go either way. It's unlikely, but then so was the Galaxy 4/Underwater Menace find.
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« Reply #196 on: August 31, 2013, 01:30:27 pm »

Ditto.  I've been in a situation over the past few days where, although I've been on the site and made some simple posts, I simply haven't had the time or energy to read through ten pages of complex arguments.  I've promised myself that I'll make time to do that over the weekend.
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« Reply #197 on: September 01, 2013, 03:47:41 pm »

OK, I've finally had the chance to read through this entire thread (and I'd point out that claims of people being "missing" were after only about two days - people have reasons to pop in and out here).

First, I'd like to thank TRH for all the posts - whether the information turns out to be true or false, it's been interesting to read, especially all the stuff about the distribution of the stories.  Obviously, I don't know TRH's source, and I don't know enough about the process of recovering stories to be able to assess the probability of this being true, so I can't actually say I believe the information given.

On the other hand, I don't find it implausible.  If this kind of worldwide search has been going on, a great deal might be turning up, and it's certainly believable that no announcements would be made while negotiations are ongoing.  I also think it adds credibility that TRH is making varied claims for different rumours, all the way from fact to suggestions he's sceptical about.  The claim about MP/EOTW/WOF does seem to be coming from a lot of different sources, so I'm cautiously optimistic about that.  The claims about lots of episodes being found - it's not impossible, but I'll believe that when I see it.

Overall, I think, I take the same position as Saber, as I said much earlier in this thread - that it's emotionally safer to be sceptical and get a lovely surprise if it's all true, but that certainly doesn't mean I actually believe it's untrue.
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« Reply #198 on: September 01, 2013, 06:39:31 pm »

Interesting read. I thought I would add some things in for clarification on points that have previously been made.

When asked about denials/confirmation, TRH mentioned Anneke Wills but was hazy on the details. I actually remember reading a lot about this. She made the remark after an official convention, in a bar to a group of fans that were discussing how cool it was that UM2 had been found because she didn't have many episodes left in existence. She commented back how there was more to come and said about Power of the Daleks, but was told that she had to stop talking about it and was escorted away from the group by one of the event people. She also said there'd be a surprise at the 50th.

As for the 8000 reel find rumour that TRH said he didn't know much about, this is actually fact rather than rumour, but may have been twisted to suit Doctor Who fans. 3000 tonnes of film reels were shipped to the BBC from Africa, containing roughly 8000 reels. Someone who worked for the shipping company leaked the shipping label and spoke to a website to say that they had trouble finding the address and so had to call the recipient to collect, who confirmed to them that it included Doctor Who. So the first part is real, the second part could be made up by the shipping guy and the 300 eps of DW with 90 missing included could have been spun out of that.

Also, this is the official 'denial' from the BBC. It's by Philip Fleming, head of communications:

"There are always rumours and speculation about Doctor Who missing episodes being discovered, however we cannot confirm any new finds.”

As has been stated, this could be read either way.

Ian Levine, who many might know has found many missing episodes and conducted his own searches, also tweeted to say that he has seen the three tonnes of reels and that there were missing episodes in there. He then changed his mind to say there wasn't, then said there were and then said he couldn't speak about it anymore, and hasn't.

Mistaken? Or asked to stop talking about it? Up to the reader. Maybe all this will bring another angle to the thread.
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« Reply #199 on: September 02, 2013, 12:03:50 pm »

The huge search has been conducted by the TIEA and there is actually a fair bit of information about it online, though very little detail in the way of what has been found because, as has been said up thread, they have said that they will not reveal anything until it is all finished. 6 years and counting so far. Who knows how much longer it will take. It's odd though, that considering they haven't officially found anything relating to Doctor Who, they have been invited to talk on the commentary for one story. Seems an odd inclusion for a group of people who so far apparently have nothing to do with the show. There was also a review in DWM for the Reign of Terror where the writer called them the 'heroes of our times', which again is a strong sentiment from a magazine specific to Doctor Who about a company that apparently has done nothing for the show. Yet.

Personally, based on things I have been reading over the last few months I have a feeling there is something more to this, and I think that we will be getting at least something, even if not a huge haul of episodes.
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