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Plot Holes

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« on: January 04, 2011, 04:12:37 pm »

There are loads and one has been niggling at me for a few days, so I thought I would start a thread about plot holes that they could all go in. The one that has been bugging me is this:

The Big Bang opened up loads of plot holes, but surely one of the biggest would be the wedding of Amy and Rory. Amelia said in the first episode that the only reason she was living in Leadworth (or England in general) is because her mam and dad died, but then TBB happened and they werent erased, so why were they all suddenly living in Leadworth? Surely she would still be living with them in Scotland therefore not knowing Rory, or at least not knowing him enough to be engaged and later married to him, therefore never having that moment of rememberance and so never bringing the Doctor back to life.

I know all this stuff is trivial, but I can't help that my poor brain deserves answers to it. There are loads of others but I will let other people put them in Smiley
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2011, 04:15:32 pm »

I'd never even thought of that one. There are loads though, and most of them are from or at least due to TBB. One that I spotted in The Eleventh Hour that I was sure meant something, and then came to nothing by the time of TBB, was that there were three stories in Amy's house on the inside, but only two on the outside. I suppose it could mean something later on or might just come down to filming in two different places, but I felt sure that it meant something
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2011, 05:35:22 pm »

I think there's an ever-so-slight difference between the idea of her parents being remembered back into existence and never having been erased in the first place. Had they never been erased in the first place, then you would be right: Amy would likely be living in Scotland still , never having met Rory or even the Doctor. But they weren't unerased, they were written again; a subtle distinction which I believe could explain away the perceived plothole. If Amy remembered them back into existence, then perhaps she remembered them into the situation and scenario she was most familiar with; or maybe her love for Rory was more powerful than that for the parents she couldn't at all remember, and their existence bent to fit hers with Rory.

As for the third floor in Amy's house, I thought the same thing. I thought the house was going to turn out to be a ship similar to the one seen in the Lodger - which the Doctor specifically referred to as someone's attempt to build a TARDIS. Maybe the same ship at a different point in its timestream, possibly owned by whoever's behind "the Silence". This may or may not lend credence to the idea of the villain in question being Omega, the Valeyard, the Master, or some other Time Lord baddy, but that's another discussion entirely.

I think most perceived plotholes introduced by Big Bang Two can be explained away quite easily: when the Universe was rebooted, history shifted in small ways due to the randomness of existence. Some may think of this as lazy writing, but I feel it was the only way for Moffat to have any kind of control over some of his predecessors more... questionable stories. Even being as fond of Mr. Davies as I am, I can't deny that a number of his plots are in desperate need of some wibbly-wobbly adjusting; I don't think many others can deny it either.
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2011, 06:14:36 pm »

I kind of tend to agree with the above. Not because its right, but because it could be. Anything could be. TBB ended things in such a way that pretty much anything that ever comes up in the show can now be put down to the effects of TBB. Whether that is a good thing in the long run is anyones guess though!
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2011, 09:38:51 pm »

So many in series 5. Rory's badge is another that supposedly meant nothing, but I still don't believe that.
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2011, 11:30:55 pm »

C'mon, if there were no plot holes it wouldn't be Doctor Who. They're one of its finest traditions!

And anyway, Amelia doesn't say that her parents are dead, just that she doesn't have any; and doesn't give any reason why she moved to England, just that she did and it's "rubbish" - so she may have moved there with her parents prior to their ceasing to exist, and her Aunt may well have lived with them before all this happened.

Although, if we're being pedantic, the fact that her parents no longer ever existed should mean that she shouldn't exist either since if they'd never existed nothing they ever did - including creating Amelia - would never have happened.

Surely the conclusion we can draw from all this is that either a) it all makes perfect sense but is far too wibbly-wobbly and timey-wimey for our feeble human brains to understand without having to ask the Doctor, or b) the whole thing is and always has been so completely riddled with plot-holes that they're an integral part of the show and not to love them is not to love Doctor Who. Take your pick.
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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2011, 02:43:24 pm »

One that I spotted in The Eleventh Hour that I was sure meant something, and then came to nothing by the time of TBB, was that there were three stories in Amy's house on the inside, but only two on the outside. I suppose it could mean something later on or might just come down to filming in two different places, but I felt sure that it meant something

I wondered about this for a while, but someone cleared it up on GB fairly satisfactorily.  There's a glimpse in one of the Confidentials, I think the 11th Hour one, where you get a shot of what's what.  When the Doctor was chained to the radiator the crew had to film from the top of those stairs, you can see that the door at the top of them opens strangely, kinda like an attic door rather than a normal one.  So the 3rd 'floor' is actually an attic room, it's just that it has a proper stairway rather than a ladder.  My brother has recently put the same kind of set up in his house as they needed an extra bedroom when my nephew was born last year.
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2011, 02:18:45 pm »

Another one I thought of, though its totally tiny and easy to get around, is how come Rory and Amy still had their outfits in ACC?
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2011, 02:21:42 pm »

One that I spotted in The Eleventh Hour that I was sure meant something, and then came to nothing by the time of TBB, was that there were three stories in Amy's house on the inside, but only two on the outside. I suppose it could mean something later on or might just come down to filming in two different places, but I felt sure that it meant something

I wondered about this for a while, but someone cleared it up on GB fairly satisfactorily.  There's a glimpse in one of the Confidentials, I think the 11th Hour one, where you get a shot of what's what.  When the Doctor was chained to the radiator the crew had to film from the top of those stairs, you can see that the door at the top of them opens strangely, kinda like an attic door rather than a normal one.  So the 3rd 'floor' is actually an attic room, it's just that it has a proper stairway rather than a ladder.  My brother has recently put the same kind of set up in his house as they needed an extra bedroom when my nephew was born last year.

If you look at the roof from the outside though, it only has the tiniest of slopes to it. Not big enough for an attic room. It could be that (as someone said already) they filmed in two different places but if the stairs were to be significant, I would say the outside of the house being the size it is could mean there is another hidden TARDIS on the roof maybe?
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2011, 01:06:00 pm »

The Big Bang was kind of one big plot hole if you ask me. I enjoyed it, but it made very little sense in parts
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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2011, 06:11:57 pm »

If anyone is even slightly tempted to criticise series five for plotholes, they need to recall Doomsday. As far as I'm concerned, there were some minor production errors in s5 (the doc is seen reaching for the glowing TARDIS key twice in TEE, Rory's badge, stories of house, for example), which I don't really care about, but the stories themselves were the tightest we've had since 2005. Moffat is the master of complex storylines.
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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2011, 06:13:51 pm »

I think this is about plot holes in general rather than just about series 5 Smiley
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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2011, 06:17:02 pm »

Oh, ok. DOOMSDAY. What the hell was he on? Story doesn't work at all, let's just do it anyway.
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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2011, 08:56:09 pm »

Oh, ok. DOOMSDAY. What the hell was he on? Story doesn't work at all, let's just do it anyway.

Being a bad story and being full of plot holes is completely different
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« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2011, 04:45:37 pm »

Doomsday was both.
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« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2011, 05:40:37 pm »

My head hurts now. I hate you all.






Ps - not really.
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« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2011, 11:44:00 am »

Re-bumping this one because I noticed something weird...

BBC3 has been repeating S5 over recent weeks, and in The Eleventh Hour...just after the 'duck pond' exchange with Amy, the Doctor clutches at his chest and falls on the ground: 'This is too soon....I'm not ready.  I'm not done yet.'    I know the simple interpretation is 'It's too soon for me to be dealing with an alien attack, I'm not done regenerating yet', but he really looks as if by 'this' he's referring to the pain in his chest or whatever it might signify...I don't know. 

But it's immediately followed by the sky turning dark.  And, I know, it gets explained as the Atraxi putting the force field round the Earth, but is it me or does the Sun at that point look very like the exploding TARDIS in The Big Bang?  Does anyone think there's more to that scene than meets the eye?

(Apart from the fact that the 'duck pond' exchange itself never really gets fully explained, but that's another thing.)
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« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2011, 05:15:02 pm »

I don't think there is anything more too it than the Doctor not having completely finished his regeneration.

I agree about the sun, but again I think it was probably just a coincidence, maybe caused by budget constraints and so reusing an existing image
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