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Dislike for Moffat

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sleekituk
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« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2010, 11:18:01 pm »

Moffat's Who has expanded my interest in other shows and fandoms.  Supernatural as a "grown up" show and Merlin as a family show both resonate better with me.  I think it's a shame as I believe Matt Smith has potential that will never be truly seen.  Looking forwards to Primeval retirning too as Abbey is another example of a bad ass female role model which has been so lacking under Moffats stewardship Sad
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« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2010, 04:44:11 pm »

Moffat's Who has expanded my interest in other shows and fandoms.  Supernatural as a "grown up" show and Merlin as a family show both resonate better with me.  I think it's a shame as I believe Matt Smith has potential that will never be truly seen.  Looking forwards to Primeval retirning too as Abbey is another example of a bad ass female role model which has been so lacking under Moffats stewardship Sad

Yeah, that's where I'm at--I'm pretty much tuning out from New Who until Moff leaves and focusing on other fandoms.
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« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2011, 11:05:51 am »

I think he has run the show into the ground personally
When I watch Rose, Christmas Invasion, and Smith and Jones in comparison it makes me want to cry.

I love Moffat, so won't dwell on the points made as it's obviously an opinion a lot of people have (i'm sure you would feel the same way about my Russell T thread!) We can agree on one thing though, watching those episodes also makes me want to cry (though perhaps for different reasons!)

I just wanted to post because I was very interested about the points made about Moffat's view of women. It sounds shocking! Can you provide some more details on this, quotes, links to interviews? I would certainly like to hear more about these shocking comments!

It strikes me as doubly odd as the comments about wanting marriage and kids doesn't seem to reflect his episodes? Amy is quite the opposite, with Rory being the one wanting this and her being unsure and wanting more from life. I know she eventually does marry, but this is through her love for Rory? Also, Sally Sparrow seemed much more concerned with her own development and sense of adventure than settling down? I really can't imagine River being subservient, quite the opposite!

It's very sad that Moffat apparently holds these views, and also odd that his writing of female characters doesn't seem to reflect this (although maybe his fear of girls might explain the fact that his female characters seem to dominate their male counterparts - though I must say I prefare this to Rose and Martha's complete devotion to the Doctor).
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« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2011, 02:19:28 pm »

Moved the most recent post into its own thread, as it was off-topic to the thread.

As for the other question:

http://news.scotsman.com/doctorwho/Time-Lad-scores-with-sex.2535185.jp


"...women are needy. Men can go for longer, more happily, without women. That’s the truth. We don’t, as little boys, play at being married - we try to avoid it for as long as possible. Meanwhile women are out there hunting for husbands."

This is one of a few sources. Smiley
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« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2011, 03:46:58 pm »

Moved the most recent post into its own thread, as it was off-topic to the thread.

As for the other question:

http://news.scotsman.com/doctorwho/Time-Lad-scores-with-sex.2535185.jp


"...women are needy. Men can go for longer, more happily, without women. Thatís the truth. We donít, as little boys, play at being married - we try to avoid it for as long as possible. Meanwhile women are out there hunting for husbands."

This is one of a few sources. Smiley

Yikes - stupid comments there. Depends on personality - not gender! Always disliked coupling anyway - no wonder if it's based on such 'logic'. To be honest though, I don't feel this attitude has carried over into Who.
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« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2011, 04:29:47 pm »

Yikes - stupid comments there. Depends on personality - not gender! Always disliked coupling anyway - no wonder if it's based on such 'logic'. To be honest though, I don't feel this attitude has carried over into Who.

I kinda do--and it's a huge problem for me. Unless Amy and River's chars improve (and no more wifey crap with River) I can't see *how* it hasn't carried over.
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« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2011, 04:42:12 pm »

Yikes - stupid comments there. Depends on personality - not gender! Always disliked coupling anyway - no wonder if it's based on such 'logic'. To be honest though, I don't feel this attitude has carried over into Who.

I kinda do--and it's a huge problem for me. Unless Amy and River's chars improve (and no more wifey crap with River) I can't see *how* it hasn't carried over.

True - River being the Doctor's wife would be lame. But you know what, I actually think Moffet is having fun with this. Everyone assumes that she will be his wife, because that's the most conventional may men and women can have very significant and long-lasting relationships. This is echoed in River making cheeky hints about this. I'd bet - and obviously I could be dead wrong - that this isn't the case at all and in fact their lives are connected in some other way that trumps the convention. Sure, Rivers death shows love and devotion for the Doctor, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with gender, and I would love it if it didn't. I recently red an interview with the actress who played Jo Grant and she said how Jo was always willing to put her life on the line because she knew how, in the bigger picture, the Doctor was of so much more significance than her, and the universe needed him. I love that idea and, actually knowing the vital things the Doctor does in the future (stop the rebirth of the angels/save the universe, anyone?) is one hell of a motivation for River to do whatever she can to prevent 10s death.

As for Amy, there is a very good reason for her character being slightly hollow (her brain was hollowed out by the crack) and there has been numerous comments about her developing next season, so I am optimistic that this time next year these criticisms may be moot!
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« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2011, 04:43:36 pm »

True - River being the Doctor's wife would be lame. But you know what, I actually think Moffet is having fun with this. Everyone assumes that she will be his wife, because that's the most conventional may men and women can have very significant and long-lasting relationships. This is echoed in River making cheeky hints about this. I'd bet - and obviously I could be dead wrong - that this isn't the case at all and in fact their lives are connected in some other way that trumps the convention. Sure, Rivers death shows love and devotion for the Doctor, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with gender, and I would love it if it didn't. I recently red an interview with the actress who played Jo Grant and she said how Jo was always willing to put her life on the line because she knew how, in the bigger picture, the Doctor was of so much more significance than her, and the universe needed him. I love that idea and, actually knowing the vital things the Doctor does in the future (stop the rebirth of the angels/save the universe, anyone?) is one hell of a motivation for River to do whatever she can to prevent 10s death.

I sincerely hope so, and I hope for more 3Dness for River too. I'd like to like her, but the way she is written has made it impossible.

Quote
As for Amy, there is a very good reason for her character being slightly hollow (her brain was hollowed out by the crack) and there has been numerous comments about her developing next season, so I am optimistic that this time next year these criticisms may be moot!

Again, I hope. We'll see what happens next season!
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« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2011, 04:49:32 pm »

Doctor-lite River Song episode for 2011 season please! Not sure if dividing the series eliminates need for this (not really sure why it's needed, only that it's to do with Christmas specials) but it would be awesome to develop her character in isolation to her relationship with the Doctor. Same could be said for Amy.
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« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2011, 04:51:08 pm »

Doctor-lite River Song episode for 2011 season please! Not sure if dividing the series eliminates need for this (not really sure why it's needed, only that it's to do with Christmas specials) but it would be awesome to develop her character in isolation to her relationship with the Doctor. Same could be said for Amy.

From what I heard, there'll be a lot of her in the upcoming series. And...as this thread is rapidly getting offtopic, I'll steer it back by mentioning that I really do think that this upcoming season will be more or less his last chance with a lot of people (self included) to show he can get back to writing a good show.
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« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2011, 11:56:09 am »

I think he has run the show into the ground personally

I agree!

Whilst I think his RTD-era episodes were fantastic (I really liked GITF), his show-runner episodes have been highly sub-par. With the exception of The Eleventh Hour and The Pandorica Opens, the rest of the series has been terrible (Amy's Choice was fantastic, though not written by Moffat). And I have to say, it took me 3 viewings of The 11th Hour before I really liked it. Perhaps it's because I only watched it once, but I'm not a huge fan of Vincent and the Doctor. The Hungry Earth 2-parter literally almost sent me to sleep - the most boring NewWho eps ever for me personally (I haven't seen the Classic series). Despite TPO being great, the Big Bang was really quite terrible - how does a plothole as big as the Doctor letting himself out of the Pandorica get past the initial script-stage?
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« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2011, 01:27:31 pm »

I think he has run the show into the ground personally

I agree!

Whilst I think his RTD-era episodes were fantastic (I really liked GITF), his show-runner episodes have been highly sub-par. With the exception of The Eleventh Hour and The Pandorica Opens, the rest of the series has been terrible (Amy's Choice was fantastic, though not written by Moffat). And I have to say, it took me 3 viewings of The 11th Hour before I really liked it. Perhaps it's because I only watched it once, but I'm not a huge fan of Vincent and the Doctor. The Hungry Earth 2-parter literally almost sent me to sleep - the most boring NewWho eps ever for me personally (I haven't seen the Classic series). Despite TPO being great, the Big Bang was really quite terrible - how does a plothole as big as the Doctor letting himself out of the Pandorica get past the initial script-stage?

Completely agreed. The Big Bang was an incoherent mess. I actually enjoyed The Pandorica Opens, and The Eleventh Hour was...well, when you compare it to other intros like Rose, Christmas Invasion/New Earth, Smith and Jones...it looks pale with very little plot.
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« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2011, 02:59:23 am »

I think he has run the show into the ground personally
Despite TPO being great, the Big Bang was really quite terrible - how does a plothole as big as the Doctor letting himself out of the Pandorica get past the initial script-stage?

How does a plothole as big as Sally Sparrow talking to a Doctor in real time through DVDs he recorded earlier gets past the initial script-stage? The answer, is the same. Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey. Which I take it to mean (and I realize this is my personal take), that it doesn't matter, as long as it's entertaining.

I really can't address right now every complain aimed at Moffat, although I agree with some, and disagree with others. But the one I disagree the most, is that he's ran the show into the ground. On the contrary, I feel that it's steadier than before, especially after the Christmas Special.
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« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2011, 04:01:00 am »

I really can't address right now every complain aimed at Moffat, although I agree with some, and disagree with others. But the one I disagree the most, is that he's ran the show into the ground. On the contrary, I feel that it's steadier than before, especially after the Christmas Special.

That's fine. I don't think he's run the show quite into the ground *yet* but it's definitely pretty lackluster in comparison to what came before.
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« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2011, 09:06:20 am »

I think he has run the show into the ground personally
Despite TPO being great, the Big Bang was really quite terrible - how does a plothole as big as the Doctor letting himself out of the Pandorica get past the initial script-stage?

How does a plothole as big as Sally Sparrow talking to a Doctor in real time through DVDs he recorded earlier gets past the initial script-stage? The answer, is the same. Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey. Which I take it to mean (and I realize this is my personal take), that it doesn't matter, as long as it's entertaining.


To be fair though, things like this are played with in almost every sci fi show/film that deals with time travel, including classic Dr Who. Most just see it as part of the fun of playing around with the concept of time travel, which seems to have many contradictions inherent to it. If we're talking real science, the concept of time travel itself is paradoxical in many, many ways so the whole of Dr Who is a plothole!
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« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2011, 04:23:20 pm »

To be fair though, things like this are played with in almost every sci fi show/film that deals with time travel, including classic Dr Who. Most just see it as part of the fun of playing around with the concept of time travel, which seems to have many contradictions inherent to it. If we're talking real science, the concept of time travel itself is paradoxical in many, many ways so the whole of Dr Who is a plothole!

There's timey-wimey and then there's just sloppy, bad writing. Moffat just tries too hard to be clever at the expense of characterization and a good story. He's also a little bit too sensitive to fandom, often to the point of deliberately acting out to instigate a reaction. RTD was also too sensitive, but he went in the opposite direction of trying to please too many people.

All in all, I think seasons 1-3 were the absolute best of Doctor Who and then it went downhill from there.
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