The Doctor In The TARDIS
November 18, 2019, 09:33:15 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Celebrate 50 years of Doctor Who with us in our Top Ten Of Everything section
 
  Home Help Gallery Doctor Who News Facebook Group FAQ's Staff List Calendar Members Login Register  

Steven Moffat Slates Doctor Who

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Steven Moffat Slates Doctor Who  (Read 280 times)
Aneurin
Guardian Of Gallifrey
****
Favourite Doctor: Eleven
Favourite Companion: River
Posts: 5764


Formally River Song


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« on: November 06, 2010, 05:43:14 pm »

I was just looking through that website that the Doc put up earlier and saw this one with Moffat from a few years ago. Its a very interesting read indeed. He pretty much comes off like he hated about the old show except for the concept. He slates the stories, the writers, the producers and the actors. All very pompous stuff. Here it is....

Q: How many of the New Adventures have you read?

A: Iíve read quite a few, but not so many of them anymore. Thereís 24 of them a year. Thatís too bloody many. Iíve never wanted 24 new Doctor Who adventures a year. Six was a perfectly good number.

Q: But Doctor Who was on 40 weeks of the year in the Hartnell era.

A: Yes, but did you see the pace of those shows? They were incredibly show. Hideous. I dearly love Doctor Who, but I donít think my love of it translated into itís being a tremendously good series. It was a bit crap at times, wasnít it?

Q: Youíve pointed out in the past that thereís a certain camp value to it sometimes.

A: If you judge it on what they were trying to do, which is create a low budget, light-hearted childrenís adventure serial for teatime, itís bloody amazingly good. If you judge it as a high class drama series, itís falling a bit short. But thatís not what it was trying to be.

Q: I think Doctor Who in the 60′s was simply of its time.

A: Even for the 60′s, it was slow. If you look at the first episode of Doctor Who, that betrays the lie that itís just the 60′s, because that first episodeís really good. The rest of itís ****.

Q: They had months of lead-up time to it. After that, it was weekly.

A: Thatís fair enough, but the rest is still bad.

Q: The fans tend to try to compare it to I, Claudius. Thereís a certain macho quality to some fans that makes them say itís up there with Shakespeare.

A: I, Claudius had a brilliant script and a cast of brilliant actors. These are two things we canít say, in all forgiveness, about some periods of Doctor Who. Much as I love itÖ

Q: Youíre willing to recognise its limitations?

A: Yes. I still think most of the Peter Davison era stands up.

Q: I hated the Davison era.

A: How could you? When I look back at Doctor Who now, I laugh at it fondly. As a television professional, I think ĎHow did these guys get a paycheque every week?í. Nothing from the black and white days, with the exception of the pilot episode, should have got out of the building. They should have been clubbing those guys to death. Youíve got an old guy in the lead who canít remember his lines. Youíve got Patrick Troughton, who was a good actor, but his companions Ė how did they get their Equity card? Theyíre unimaginably bad. Once you get to the colour stuff, some of itís watchable, but itís laughable. Mostly now, looking back, Iím startled by it. Given that itís a teatime show, a childrenís show, I think most of the Peter Davison stuff is well-constructed, the directors are consistent.

Q: Theyíre consistently crap.

A: Peter Davison is a better actor than all the other ones. Thatís the simple reason why it works better. Thereís no complicated reason why Peter Davison carried on working and all the others disappeared into a retirement home. I recently watched a very good Doctor Who story, one I couldnít really fault. It was Snakedance. Sure, it was cheap, but it was beautifully acted, well-written. There was a scene where Peter Davison has to explain whatís going on. The Doctor always has to. Now, some old actor like Tom Baker would come to a shuddering halt in the middle of the set and stare at the camera, because he canít bear the idea that someone else is in the show. But Peter Davison is such a good actor, he manages to panic on the screen for a good two minutes, which has you sitting on the edge of your seat because youíre thinking ĎGod, this must be really badí. Heís got the most awful lines to say, but heís doing it brilliantly. My memory of Doctor Who is based on bad television that I enjoyed at the time.

It could get me really burnt saying this, but Doctor Who is aimed at eleven year olds. Donít you think itís fair to say that Doctor Who was a great idea that happened to the wrong people? I think the actual structure, the actual format is as good as anything thatís ever been done. The character of the Doctor, the TARDIS, all that stuff is so good, it can actually stand not being done terribly well. There was some very good stuff spread over the twenty-five years, but that wasnít enough.

Q: We were having a dinner party when the documentary Resistance is Futile was first shown. Everyone loved it, but as soon as the 60′s episode The Time Meddler came on, people turned away within thirty seconds. Remembrance of the Daleks, when it was first on, we thought it was fast-paced. Now it looks slow and staid.

A: None of this is true. Weíve had an absolute perception of pacing for a very long time. Some of Shakespeare is pretty pacy.

Q: Shakespeare has people standing around on stage spouting for ten minutes at a time.

A: Okay, I agree. Shakespeare is not as good as Doctor Who.

Q: When it comes to Shakespeare, the perception of pace changes with the times.

A: Doctor Who wasnít limited by the times or the style that were prevalent then. It was limited by the relatively meagre talent of the people who were working on it.

Q: And yet the people who were working on it turned over on a regular basis. Are you saying they were all mediocre?

A: Mostly they were middle of the range hacks who were not going to go on to do much else. Over 26 years, the hitrate is not high enough. There are people who have worked on Doctor Who and gone on to great things, like Douglas Adams. I just think most people thought this was going to be the big moment of their lives, which is a shame. As a television format, Doctor Who equals anything. Unless I chose my episodes very carefully, I couldnít sit anyone I work with in television down in front of Doctor Who and say ĎWatch thisí.

Q: What episode would you show them? Iíd go for good old reliable Robert Holmes, a man who knew what drama was. The Talons of Weng Chiang part 1, a very good hack.

A: How could a good hack think that the BBC could make a giant rat? If heíd come to my house, when I was fourteen, and said ĎCan BBC Special Effects do a giant rat?í, Iíd have said no. Iíd rather see them do something limited than something crap. What I resented was going to school two days later, and my friends knew I watched this show, and theyíd say ĎDid you see the giant rat?í, and Iíd have to say I thought there was dramatic integrity elsewhere.
Report Spam   Logged

Peri-Peri
Global Moderator
Destroyer Of Worlds
*****
Favourite Doctor: Five
Favourite Companion: Peri
Posts: 8805


Circular logic will only make you dizzy, Doctor


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2010, 05:57:14 pm »

I'd heard about this interview before but never read it. It's horrible and very disrespectful. He sounds a bit too big for his boots and even if that's what he really believes he should be a lot more professional than to say ten in an interview
Report Spam   Logged

It eats you, starting with your bottom


Aneurin
Guardian Of Gallifrey
****
Favourite Doctor: Eleven
Favourite Companion: River
Posts: 5764


Formally River Song


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2010, 06:01:55 pm »

I agree completely. I was tempted to link this thread up to the Moffat Dislike thread but didnt want to be seen as baiting
Report Spam   Logged

2cajuman2
Faithful Companion
***
Favourite Doctor: Christopher Ecclestone
Favourite Companion: Cpt Jack Harkness
Posts: 2025


Famous person? Favourite Cheese please?


View Profile WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2010, 08:00:35 pm »

I don't think it is too awful. Yeah he slates it a bit, overjudgemental but he has succeeded so he must know something about good tv....

He does have some (a couple) of good points though
Report Spam   Logged


River Song: Everyone knows that everyone dies. And nobody knows it like the doctor. But I do think that all the skies in all the worlds might just turn dark, if he ever accepts it.

??Cheeses + rising!
TheDoctorDonna
Timelord
****
Favourite Doctor: Eleven/Two
Favourite Companion: Donna/Barbara
Posts: 3116


Whatchoo Lookin' At?


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2010, 09:55:36 pm »

I think its awful. He has released a statment about it more recently saying he didnt mean it and was just being an arrogant arse, but I think it says a lot about how he thinks and yet again he is backpeddling over things he said
Report Spam   Logged


One! One word! Shake, milk-shake, milk! Milk! No? Not milk! Um, shake, shake, shake! Cocktail shake! What, d'you want a Harvey Wallbanger?
thefifthdoctor
Faithful Companion
***
Favourite Doctor: Fifth
Favourite Companion: Peri
Posts: 1554



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2010, 10:12:11 pm »

 Roll Eyes
For what it's worth, a good mate of mine attended a writing workshop by Moffat about a year or so ago, and the above interview sounds exactly like the guy he encountered that evening.

I could say "oh it's cool, he liked the PD era", but frankly, he was just a major dick there, and the interviewer was almost as bad.

And don't start me on the "it's for 11 year olds" bullshit. that's insulting to kids, to adults, to families. SJA is aimed at that age range, NOT Doctor Who.

/endrant
Report Spam   Logged

TheDoctorDonna
Timelord
****
Favourite Doctor: Eleven/Two
Favourite Companion: Donna/Barbara
Posts: 3116


Whatchoo Lookin' At?


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2010, 10:14:31 pm »

And even SJA still appeals to everyone.

I think Moff was way up on his high horse there. Then and still now, he seems to think he is the only person in the world who has any idea about how to make the show. He seems to me, regardless of his work, to be a very unlikeable person
Report Spam   Logged


One! One word! Shake, milk-shake, milk! Milk! No? Not milk! Um, shake, shake, shake! Cocktail shake! What, d'you want a Harvey Wallbanger?
Exterminate
Guardian Of Gallifrey
****
Posts: 6335

Do Not Blaspheme!


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2010, 11:54:22 pm »

The guy is a total berk!
Report Spam   Logged

2cajuman2
Faithful Companion
***
Favourite Doctor: Christopher Ecclestone
Favourite Companion: Cpt Jack Harkness
Posts: 2025


Famous person? Favourite Cheese please?


View Profile WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2010, 12:48:24 am »

SJA is aimed at 8year olds and DW is aimed at 12year olds, its a known fact.

From the title I was expecting worse and the interviewer annoyed me more than Moff.

I'm not saying that he isn't speaking above his station and is a bit of a hard critic, too hard perhaps, but it could be worse. And PD was a good actor, much more varied than some of the others.
Report Spam   Logged


River Song: Everyone knows that everyone dies. And nobody knows it like the doctor. But I do think that all the skies in all the worlds might just turn dark, if he ever accepts it.

??Cheeses + rising!
Exterminate
Guardian Of Gallifrey
****
Posts: 6335

Do Not Blaspheme!


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2010, 01:05:07 am »

Yes, but being 'aimed at' and 'appealing to' are two very different things. Sometimes a chick flick might appeal to me, but they are primaraly aimed at women. SJA appeals to me but it is aimed at children. Your known fact is incorrect. DW is marketed as family entertainment and its on at a time when the family are settling down to watch that sort of thing. Same as with Merlin or Robin Hood. Family dramas that are suitable to all ages but not aimed at any one in particular. The show has always been made, right back to 1963, by the BBC Drama department. That isnt a department aimed at children. SJA is made by the childrens division, but yet appeals to anyone who 'gets' it and 'likes' it. I think you are seriously missing the point of some of the stories and episodes if you think DW is solely aimed at 12 year olds. Same for SJA and your 8yo theory
Report Spam   Logged

2cajuman2
Faithful Companion
***
Favourite Doctor: Christopher Ecclestone
Favourite Companion: Cpt Jack Harkness
Posts: 2025


Famous person? Favourite Cheese please?


View Profile WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2010, 01:19:16 am »

I hate assumations.

It has been said numerous times about the age thing. Neither The Moff nor I said appeal, so I don't get your angle. You will never hear me say there is nothing in Doctor Who or Spin-offs for the older audience. Though SJA has a very low amount aimed higher.
Report Spam   Logged


River Song: Everyone knows that everyone dies. And nobody knows it like the doctor. But I do think that all the skies in all the worlds might just turn dark, if he ever accepts it.

??Cheeses + rising!
BeeSC
Earthling
**
Favourite Doctor: 10th
Favourite Companion: Rose/Donna
Posts: 336


I'm Not Mean. I'm Just Not Very Nice ô


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2010, 04:24:20 am »

I'm still in shock from reading the article, I can't believe he said all of this!
Report Spam   Logged

Exterminate
Guardian Of Gallifrey
****
Posts: 6335

Do Not Blaspheme!


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2010, 12:02:12 pm »

I hate assumations.

Its perhaps me being a bit stupid, but I dont know what an assumation is so I cant really respond to that.

It has been said numerous times about the age thing. Neither The Moff nor I said appeal, so I don't get your angle.

You responded to a post saying that SJA appealed to everyone by saying that its aimed at 8yo and DW at 12yo as though appeal and aim are the same thing and then called it a fact. That was my angle. But thats not a fact. RTD stated several million times in both interviews and in his book that DW was a family drama. Accessible to ALL the family and not aimed at just children, therefore debunking your 'fact' that it is aimed at 12 year olds. Moffat, when responding to comments a few weeks back made by Stephen Fry saying the show had become too adult for its child audience, said that children were not its audience and that he was making a show that was aimed at everyone, again debunking your 'fact'.

You will never hear me say there is nothing in Doctor Who or Spin-offs for the older audience. Though SJA has a very low amount aimed higher.

SJA on the other hand IS aimed at a younger audience of 8-12 year olds, but that was why I made my point about aim and appeal. This is a show that was made specifically to target a younger audience and yet its themes and stories are old enough to appeal to anybody and is reguarly watched by people of all ages.

You made your point saying the shows are aimed at a certain audience, you said its a fact like you had authority on it, but you didnt say anything to back it up and you didnt give a reason why you were even stating your fact.
Report Spam   Logged

Sandiwich11
Faithful Companion
***
Favourite Doctor: Eleven
Favourite Companion: The Brig
Posts: 1483



View Profile WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2010, 01:02:16 pm »

I don't see why being the show runner means he can't state his own opinions on it, fans do it all the time, quite often in a far more personal way.  I can't believe that there is a single DW fan who is completely happy with every single episode made, so why should Moff be?!  I don't want someone running the show who isn't truthful, I like to hear his opinions as much as I like reading and discussing fan ones on forums.

Also have never understood this aimed at/appeals to thing either, does it really matter how old you are when you watch it.  You either like it or you don't.  Personally when I watch it I enjoy feeling like a child and being taken in by the magic of it.  The (almost obsessive way) I rewatch episodes are usually done in a 'family setting' (where I'm explaining things to the kids that they don't get and discussing the morals being presented to them) or with other adults or by myself where I'm discussing it at that level.  I can't say it's aimed at my ages group due to the material, but it makes no difference to how I see the show Cheesy
Report Spam   Logged

One day I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
Exterminate
Guardian Of Gallifrey
****
Posts: 6335

Do Not Blaspheme!


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2010, 01:12:40 pm »

For me, him having his opinion is fine, but the way he expresses it is what I think is bad. In his defence this article is from waaaay before he was Showrunner so he had no association with the show and no reason to say anything nice at all. But the double standards and the attitude is what I dont like. He has spoken publicly about those who have dissed his take on the show saying he needs to please nobody but himself, yet makes statements about other people who probably had the very same attitude for not making the show the way he thinks it should be made. He is very public about not liking criticism of his work so he shouldnt be so quick to knock other peoples efforts. He was very disrespectful of writers, producers, directors and actors, many of whom are still alive and still have strong associations with the show and I just think its a little underhanded to stick the boot in. I also think that if he didnt think what he said was out of order then he wouldnt have made comments to say he regretted saying it and calling himself arrogant, stupid and pompous. He is of course entitled to his opinion and it doesnt have to be a nice or positive one, but I do think the way he expressed it is whats most wrong.
Report Spam   Logged

Oh-Wise-One
Faithful Companion
***
Posts: 2119



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2010, 01:34:41 pm »

Taking Doctor Who out of the mix and just looking at his comments (as though they could be talking about any show) Its extremely disrespectful, but aboce that its also very unprofessional. Despite his opinions, speaking publicly like that about his peers is something that you just dont do. I think he was a lot younger and a lot more cocksure and so didnt realise exactly how badly he was coming off but its still a terrible interview
Report Spam   Logged
Sandiwich11
Faithful Companion
***
Favourite Doctor: Eleven
Favourite Companion: The Brig
Posts: 1483



View Profile WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2010, 01:38:00 pm »

I have to admit that I haven't seen the interviews where he has stated where he disses what everyone else thinks and has to make the show for himself only.  Just stuff where he doesn't take what's written on forums and suchlike, which I can understand entirely after spending some time on GB.  Rusty, Cornell, Tennant, Roberts, etc all have exactly the same opinion and I don't blame them.  If they listened to what the 0.02% of rabid fans who post their thoughts on the show then it would be a complete mess.  They listen to licence fee payers instead, which is how it should be Cheesy
Report Spam   Logged

One day I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
Oh-Wise-One
Faithful Companion
***
Posts: 2119



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2010, 01:57:46 pm »

I wouldnt advise anyone associated with DW to within a hundred miles of GB. They take criticism to a whole new level over there. Its one thing saying what you like and dont about the show, but they get so personal about everyone and everything and they all end up fighting amongst themselves. Its horrible.

Moffat did an interview, I think with DWM but I could be wrong and it wasnt that long ago, where he bascially said, and im paraphrasing, 'Obviously I want everyone to like the show, but the only person I have to please is myself and if I like what I am doing then thats all thats important'. Those werent the exact words but its the gist of it. Not sure if thats the one Exterminate was on about, but he deffinately said it.
Report Spam   Logged
Iceman
Global Moderator
Faithful Companion
*****
Favourite Doctor: The Doctor
Favourite Companion: Captain Jack Harkness
Posts: 1617


Hey, it's me!


View Profile WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2010, 01:59:03 pm »

I don't see why being the show runner means he can't state his own opinions on it, fans do it all the time, quite often in a far more personal way.  I can't believe that there is a single DW fan who is completely happy with every single episode made, so why should Moff be?!  I don't want someone running the show who isn't truthful, I like to hear his opinions as much as I like reading and discussing fan ones on forums.

Also have never understood this aimed at/appeals to thing either, does it really matter how old you are when you watch it.  You either like it or you don't.  Personally when I watch it I enjoy feeling like a child and being taken in by the magic of it.  The (almost obsessive way) I rewatch episodes are usually done in a 'family setting' (where I'm explaining things to the kids that they don't get and discussing the morals being presented to them) or with other adults or by myself where I'm discussing it at that level.  I can't say it's aimed at my ages group due to the material, but it makes no difference to how I see the show Cheesy

/thread.

Quoted for truth.

This sums it up quite nicely.
Report Spam   Logged

Twitter: http://twitter.com/Iceman525


What a bunch of a-holes.
Peri-Peri
Global Moderator
Destroyer Of Worlds
*****
Favourite Doctor: Five
Favourite Companion: Peri
Posts: 8805


Circular logic will only make you dizzy, Doctor


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2010, 03:35:17 pm »

I dont particularly agree with his comments and I do think they were perhaps worded in a way that wasnt the best, but if that is his opinion, as others have said, then that is fair enough. He has, as stated above, he has gone a ways to saying he regrets saying what he did, which you have to at least give him credit for. His response to the article a few years later was this..

“I’m vile. Full of myself. Pompous, and dismissing all the writers of the old show as lazy hacks. Dear God, I blush, I cringe, I creep. I walked out of the interview high on my own genius, and wrote Chalk, one of the most loathed and derided sitcoms in the history of the form. The thing about life is, you can always rely on it to administer a good slap when required"
Report Spam   Logged

It eats you, starting with your bottom


Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Administrator | Global Moderator | RP Moderator | Role Player
| Member Of The Month
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
Free SMF Hosting - Create your own Forum

Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy